I couldn't disagree with you more. The root of the debate is not whether it's a baby or not. The root of the debate is who has control over a woman's body. There is no one in this debate who is pro-abortion or anti-life. The sides are pro-choice or anti-choice. It absolutely drives me crazy when the anti-choice call themselves pro-life. It shows a complete lack of thought about the actual issue and what it is you're supposed to be fighting for. Imagine how many fewer abortions would be needed if you all spent your efforts on giving women MORE choices instead of taking them away.

Sarah, if you go to a real clinic, such as Planned Parenthood, they WILL give you both sides and all the facts. I walked in to my local Planned Parenthood and specifically asked for information about getting an abortion, because I had fully made up my mind before walking into the clinic. The nurse took me into a counseling room, and even though I told her I had already made up my mind and I was going to terminate the pregnancy, that I had all the information I needed and I had weighed my options and made the best decision for me, she still told me about the government services available to single mothers and about adoption services, and provided me with pamphlets with information on these things.

Planned Parenthood is a real clinic, with real doctors and nurses, and they DO provide both sides of the issue. These fake clinics lie to women, either by flat-out lying to them, or by witholding critical information.

Okay-- Now I remember why I signed up for this site. I'm the only opening liberal Christian I know. Thanks for letting me know I'm not alone.

D H, you are not alone! There are plenty of us liberal Christians out here.

I agree with Christina.  One of the reasons schools need to be more educated regarding contraception and the women need to take charge of her body to avoid an unwanted pregnancy.  I am Catholic but a moderate one.  I used to believe that abortion was okay, but now as a mother, I am not so sure anymore :( 

"I often cringe at the thought that its okay to terminate a pregency just because your irresponsible." 
If they were irresponsible enough to get pregnant, imagine how irresponsible they would be as a parent.

Christina,
You are making a big assumption saying unplanned pregnancies are the result of the woman being irresponsible. What about rape? What about broken condoms? What about medication that interferes with your birth control? There are too many factors to consider.

I'm 31 now, but when I was 20, although I was pro-choice I always thought if I were faced with an unplanned pregnancy I would not abort, because I had a family that would provide the financial resources to help out. Then I got pregnant.

Sure, there are women who have emotional repercussions to terminating a pregnancy. But there are hundreds more who are happy they made that decision, for themselves and that potential child. I am one of them. Chances are you have met several of them -- we just don't walk around with a big tattoo on our foreheads saying "I had an abortion and I'm fine."

Also, how many more women are scarred by having a child they did not want? Do you think our society allows a woman to say "I had a kid and I regret it"? Nobody says those words, but if you look at the number of children who are abused and neglected, you can see it.

This issue is not simple, and there is no right answer or quick fix. The best we can do is let each woman make the choice for herself, and the best way for her to do that is by giving her all the necessary information, not lying to her, witholding information or guilting her into yuor decision.

Criss you are wrong in about every aspect except the rape.if a condom breaks guess what?? you were still having sex and a condom box will say it is not 100% effective.along with birth control.if you don't want a kid then don't have sex.its a risk every time no matter what.you cant afford your baby?(which doesn't make sense because govt programs pay for just about everything)and having an abortion costs money too! that's a terrible excuse.and last but not least.ADOPTION! I'm sure there are a lot of loving parents who would love to adopt a child who cant have one of their own.is that not an option because you are afraid when the child grows up he/she might try to find you for an explanation?it disgusts me that anyone would want to kill a child because the simple fact they aren't ready or financially stable or whatever stupid reasons.believe me i understand if you were raped or any unfortunate reason i didn't mention.but other than that abortion is wrong in every aspect.don't take away a child's life because you cant take care of your own.

Cody,
I wish life were that simple. Really, I do.

I wish there were enough parents out there waiting to adopt all the children waiting to be adopted. Especially those who are no longer newborns, or those who are mixed-race or minorities, or those who have special needs.

I wish people understood that children should NEVER be a PUNISHMENT for "being irresponsible" and allowing a condom to break.

First of all, I'm curious as to why a fetus conceived through rape is different than a fetus conceived through any other form of intercourse. (I also want to examine your definition of rape, because I will bet you anything it is not wide enough to emcompass all the different forms and degrees of rape. But that's another blog post.)

Adoption is not the duct tape to this problem, and if you think it is then you undestand very little about pregnancy, women, and the adoption system. One of the biggest problems with adoption is that THE WOMAN MUST STILL CARRY THE PREGNANCY TO TERM. Her life and her rights and her health are still infringed upon. I have always known that there is no way in h3ll that I could even give a baby up for adoption, not because of the stupid idiotic reason you suggested, but because I understand what pregnancy is, and, more importantly, I know what I don't know about pregnancy. I know there is no way I could carry that pregnancy to term, feel that fetus inside of me, and then walk away from it. I also know that adoption has a huge price tag for the child, as well.

I would also urge you to educate yourself about the government assistance programs out there. Yes, they help -- for the first year. Guess what! The baby still has needs after that first year. My sister is a single mother (she and the father were in a stable relationship, they were married, but he turned out to be an addict and now is sporadically involved in his daughter's life -- and that's me being VERY GRACIOUS -- and doesn't pay child support, even though my sister taken him to court on this issue REPEATEDLY. Do you want me to give you the gory details of her fights with the government to get her benefits? (PS: she was on the pill when she got pregnant. In case you were wondering.)

I know it's easy for you to dismiss this issue and over-simplify it to make your conscience/agenda happy, because YOU will never see yourself in this situation. You will never be pregnant, no matter how hard you try. Perhaps this is why you are so ignorant on the raelities of this issue; it will never affect you.

And, by the way, how many children have you adopted? (Just curious.)

Cody, lets turn the tables for a minute. How about if you don't agree with abortion, don't have one. 
Not your body? Not your choice. Not your ball of cells growing inside your body? Not your choice to remove it or keep it. Children are NOT being killed, a child is alive, a child can exist outside of my body, these are things that an embryo cannot do. 
I would rather an abortion be performed than another child to be born into this world that is not wanted, cannot be taken care of and runs a higher risk of abuse. There are over 500,000 children alone in the United States that are in foster care. How many live with you? If you think adoption is the option then step up and do your part. If you want to force women to have children they dont want then you had better be prepared to be there to pick up the slack and take over when she realizes she's not ready to be a parent. Otherwise, zip it. I've LIVED the reality of a foster child, and I can tell you its no cake walk when the kid comes to you half crazed because his mother was a drug addict who didnt give a crap about him and should have never have him to begin with. 
You have say over your body, not mine, not Mary's, not Cindy's not Jane Doe's-YOURS. No one is going to force you to have an abortion so don't you dare try to tell another woman what she can or can not do with her body or one day it might be you who has her rights stripped away.

abortion is killing.  Sure it can be llegal but If a woman wants an abortion she should do it herself!  we still talking about religion?    Its about life.  Its not anybodys right to decided when to end a human life. You can choice to have sex or not.  But not to let the life inside you live or not.  You already made that choice when you chose to have sex.  So thats a yes or no question.  There are many way to expresses love responsibly...
Until this idea is understood there will be fear and hate in the world.  Abortion is a choice of fear, and an unwillingness to face your decisions directly.  Do not underestimate the power of your thoughts and decisions, they are as influencial as as your actions.  So are you ProLove or ProFear?   
  

im sorry if i am confused but when you have an abortion doesnt that mean you dont want the child??

Pretend ignorance only shows one to be doubly ignorant. Of course, as you know, Matthew was talking about actual children not being wanted or being financially abandoned by the fathers. He was not referring to the mere potential for a child which might be aborted by the only person in the world who has the right to make that decision: the mother. No one else has any right to tell a woman she must allow a pregnancy to continue.

Hans, does rape never happen in this pretty little world where everyone *chooses* to have sex? Oh thats right, its very easy for those who've never had to face that possibility when they walk to their car alone in a dark parking garage to forget that rape exists, isn't it? 

Hans,
If I have a root canal, I'm killing the tooth (it has nerve endings!) So, if I want one should I have to perform the root canal on myself?

Which other medical procedures should women perform on themselves because you happen to not like them? What about removing a tumor -- should I operate on myself if I want the tumor removed, as well? It's a multiplying mass of cells, same as a fetus. God gave me the tumor, so removing it would be going against His will... wouldn't it?

There is fear and hate in the world because one group of people insists on oppressing and controling another group of people. One group is imposing its views and beliefs on another world, like you are doing right now.

You believe the fetus is a human. I, and the scientific community, do not agree with you. Yet you insist on imposing your personal beliefs and views on me and my body. You are oppressing me and all women who think like me (there are many of us).

I am ProLove. I do not want women to live in fear. I want women to know they have choices, and that they have control over their own lives.

I did not intend to come across as pro life, as I am pro choice.  I have learned over the last 8 months that pro choice means just that, letting my 19 year old choose to keep her baby.  My initial conversation with her surrounded abortion.  She insisted she made this mistake, she would make it work, understanding it would not be easy.  She did seek out an abortion after the baby's father broke up with her, but she must have been a day or two late.  It was after that we pursued adoption. 

Well, here we are, the little guy is 2 weeks old tomorrow.  I was with her until last Friday.  Last night on the phone she was again talking about adoption.

It's not easy and I'm not in a position to help her right now.  I'm self employed in an industry that was hit hard by the downturn.  In fact I've only been in the business for 4 years so I do not have savings to fall back on.

I totally agree with Arcadia, these young women need help and not be chastised for their mistakes.  Furthermore these babies are the ones suffering.  Thank God my daughter is in a school system that is helping her to become a good mother.

Roxanne, thanks for sharing your story.  You hit the heart of the matter:  pro-choice means having options open to you be them keeping the baby, adopting or even abortion.  I can't speak for every pro-choice person obviously, I can only speak for myself.  I am not pro-abortion and I know that I could never chose abortion for myself BUT it is not my place to tell someone else what to do.

I repsect & admire you & your daughter for her choice to have the baby.  She is a young adult now, and fully capable of making this kind of decision.  I hope that the adoption works for her, and if not, I wish her nothing but the best.

Arcadia, thank you for bringing up a very important point -- what happens to all those unwanted, unaborted babies? Radical pro-lifers care about the fetus and call it a baby, but as soon as it becomes and actual baby, they leave it lying in the gutter.

My sentiments exactly!  It always seems like the pro-choicers are the ones actually helping the fetusis when they become human beings.

This has got to be the best post on this subject I have ever read.  It reflects exactly how I feel and my own experiences.

Your post really is awesome. I love, "Can you see that the abortion debate is taking place ONLY because we, as a society, have all collectively said "It's O.K." to weigh in on women's sexual activity?"

I firmly have come to realize, after the global warming crisis is settled, if ever, then there will be a water scarcity or something horrible as a result of increasing population. The solution (aside from the Illuminati Republicans who want to kill everyone that does slave or give to their corporate welfare and eliminate billions of people):
The solution is women's rights!!!!!

The solution is women being encouraged to participate in sports, like football and Ju Jitsu, so they can defend themselves against sexual predators. Women need to be giving equal employment opportunities and pay, (still not quite there yet,) we only receive 78cents to every dollar a man makes in this country. We need to be given equal opportunities to education and encouraged in math and science, a place we are often discouraged. Women who can kick ass and are busy in school or their careers are not usually the ones having abortions.

ANYONE HERE, DESPITE THEIR OWN BELIEF ON ABORTION, NEEDS TO LEAVE THAT CHOICE AVAILABLE BECAUSE IT IS A WOMAN'S RIGHT. Not only do we have food crisis, earth catastrophe crisis, we also have more SLAVES in the world right now, than any other time in human history! This increase is proportionate to the population growth, and the average price for a slave is $90. Can you imagine a ten year old girl being bought for domestic and sex work for $50 for her whole body and life until someone wants to throw her away, in NY? acrimesomonstrous.com and freetheslaves.net and castla.org

Lastly, I am apalled that their could be Fake Abortion Clinics!!! That should be illegal. Those nuns should be sued for mental abuse, misrepresentation, false advertising, soliciting, or more. That should not be allowed, Liberal Christians should be embarrassed and appalled. Force Feeding religion down a young girl who wanted a pregnancy test is shameful and thus, I will never join any denomination despite a shared love for GOD!

Adoption would be great if it didn't require the woman to carry the pregnancy to term. Read my comment in response to Cody's rant about why adoption was never an option for me.

It's also not a perfect solution for the child, either. There are so many children in our foster/adoption systems already who are not being adopted. Why do we want to add to that? Adoption is not as perfect a solution as anti-choicers want it to be. It has serious emotional consequences for the woman and the abandoned child (as well as our child welfare system and government finances).

I'll bet the packet you received from PP had information about ALL the options available to you, including adoption and abortion.

Jessica, it sounds like you've heard a lot of horror stories, some of which may or may not be true. I've heard and seen many real stories. I know several women who have had abortions, and I bet you do too -- even if you don't know they's had an abortion. Statistics show one in three women has had an abortion -- a safe, legal, non-"botched" abortion. I can show you "horrible botched" stories for any medical procedure out there, just give me time to do a quick Internet search. Does that mean we should stop letting people have surgery?

"How many of you pro-choicers have read or seen pictures and or stories regarding abortion[?]" I have seen, read, heard, experiences these stories. I have lived them. I am well informed on the subject, which is why I'm so vocal about it.

I also know much worse stories of child abuse, neglect, and murder. I have seen what happens to those unwanted pregnancies once they become babies and grow into children. The baby doesn't disappear once it comes out of the uterus or after you drop it off at the church/fire station. At that point, you are talking about a human being -- two, actually. The child and the woman who has to either raise that child when she's not ready or able, for a wide range of reasons, or live knowing she abandoned her child.

"What about a man who wants to keep the baby and the woman does not?  Does the man have no rights to his child?"

If he feels so strongly about it, then he should have had this discussion with the woman BEFORE having sex with her. If they did not agree on what to do if she were to get pregnant, then HE SHOULD HAVE KEPT IT IN HIS PANTS.

That just sounds so ignorant.

"... Just imagine what that poor, sweet child was thinking before his legs were sucked off and he was torn to pieces.  Or what he was thinking as the saline solution enters the womb and begins to burn his delicate skin, as he fights for his life (as intelligent as he is already), trying to get away from it.  Or worse yet, the baby doesn't die and they must try another method to KILL him."


Are you serious? Really serious? If so you need to take high school biology again. 

Jessica,
You are missing the point so hugely I know there is no point in addressing your "rebuttals." You've been fed lies and propaganda and you have gobbled it all up.

The reason I could never carry a pregnancy to term and then give the child away has NOTHING to do with my body changing. I never even mentioned that. It has to do with the emotional and psychological implications of the act, mainly for me but also for the abandoned child. I admire women who choose to give their baby up for adoption, because I know I am not strong enough to do something like that. I cannot bring a life into this world and walk away from it.

I am pro-choice. I am on birth control and take precautions to not get pregnant. Once, I screwed up, and got pregnant. And I had an abortion.

If the guy I was with wanted "parental rights" and wanted to have a say in whether I terminated the pregnancy or not, then he should have had that discussion with me BEFORE having sex with me. It is not MY responsibility to watch out for HIS beliefs. (Or yours, for that matter.) Based on your rebuttal, you completely missed the point I was making, and launched into an anti-woman campaign again blaming the woman for getting pregnant and making it all her fault. Yes, women initiate sex. BECAUSE IT'S OKAY FOR WOMEN TO LIKE SEX. And it's okay for women to use birth control to avoid pregnancy, and it's also okay for them to have an abortion if it has to come to that.

Stop blindly accepting the propaganda and do some real research. Get the facts on adoption rates, and also get some real info on birth control effectiveness rates (the info you presented in your first post regarding IUDs is extremely improbable, which makes me seriously doubt the rest of the information you presented.)

You're probably going to go on another irrational, misogynistic tirade in response to this. I'll do my best to ignore it, because talking to walls is highly unproductive and raises my blood pressure too much.

Getting pregnant on an IUD is not "very common" Jessica, in fact, the pregnancy rate is comparable to being on a hormone pill.  Having an IUD I can tell you I did A LOT of research on the effectiveness and had a very long discussion with my doctor about it.  One risk that is increased w/an IUD is tubal pregnancies. 

I have a child.  I have been pregnant.  I agree with Criss - I could never have carried a baby to term only to give it up for adoption.  That's me, I don't abandon people. 

The first few months of a pregnancy, though, are precarious as our bodies fight to kill and/or keep the blastocyst alive.  How many pregnancies go unnoticed because our bodies kill them off before we even miss a period?  And I'm not talking only about women on birth control.

Ha ha! We know that they are developing their senses and that they are developing their nerve endings in the womb. You are mistaking this natural part of fetal development with some ill intended genocide and it is NOT. I have two children, I am sure the labor pains were much worse than any pre-developed termination would be. My children would probably be even happier and definately have more opportunities if I had waited to be more situated in my life.

Fish feel more intense pain than us and have very developed nerve endings and yet you likely support the slaughter by eating them. I am for the most part vegan. I do not support the slaughter of full grown animals, baby animals, or the nutrition sucking and shortened life span of cows who are hooked up to breast pumps 24/7 until they die. I wouldn't be surprised if you or your family members ate meat, fish, milk etc.

Suppose you argue that you and your family have the right to live and therefore the right to eat animals and support their torture. I would say that your right to live life and kill thousands of animals and pollute by consuming energy for YOUR LIFE SPAN IS NO MORE important than another woman's life or right to not have a mental, physical, emotional, financial responsibility and burden for the rest of her life as well as the child that may be an at risk youth. Being born into poverty and being unwanted is far worse a choice than is the TWO lives you may save by non-judgmentally allowing abortion.

You are not at all considering the grown woman's life. Where you are heading after death. . .don't bring religion into this. The fact that you think a nickel size fetus is more worth fighting for and arguing about than a young woman's life or that of fish's life, then it shows little of how caring you are about this life. Did you adopt? Are you going to adopt? Are you going to help stop human trafficking? Are you going to save someones life outside your family TODAY? Don't advocate troubled women bringing more lives in the world that will need to be saved.

This is an issue of women's rights! In countries where abortion is not taboo, the rate of abortion is much less. Haven't you seen the forced pregnancies in other countries where the women carrying the child did not care about themselves and the child inside them and there are orphananges filled with handicapped, deformed children that no one wants? If you cannot worry about women getting education, physical fitness and equal pay, then stay out of abortion issues, because this is VERY minor in comparison to the problems that result from poverty, food and water scarcity, human trafficking(slaves) and sexual assault.

Though your intent may be noble, you are essentially serving to degrade women and the integrity of women and that is exactly why you are ignorant.

Jess, I could pull out articles that say the Flying Spaghetti Monster is real. I could show you articles that say Obama is the anti-christ. I could show you articles that say the world is going to end tomorrow. Doesn't mean its true. 

A fetus doesn't think. The brain is not developed, the organs are not developed, the nerve endings are not developed. There are not a million 1 inch fetuses screaming "mommy why!?" like you would have us believe. 
I'll say it again, if you don't agree with abortion, don't have one-it's that simple. 

Jessica,
There is no denying that an abortion is a very sad and tragic circumstance. I'm sorry that the young woman you mentioned earlier took such a cavalier attitude about using abortions as a form of birth control.  But most women don't.  That story does not describe the reasons the vast majority of women choose an abortion.

The bigger question is the one I posed earlier.  Why do we feel we have the right to sit in judgment of some stranger's decisions?  No one can possibly know exactly what every single pregnant woman is going through, what her exact circumstances are, what she is thinking or feeling.  Your statements indicate a clear tendancy to believe what you want to believe about other women's behaviors and more importantly -- EXACTLY WHAT THEY SHOULD HAVE DONE DIFFERENTLY, in order to have made decisions more like yours.

This is known as "judgmentalism."  Not coincidentally, it sounds as though you have strong religious beliefs, which is fine, but you have to be able to accept that other people in the world -- other women, even pregnant women -- do not have to share those beliefs with you.  All of our laws and our society exists to protect all of us, whether we share your religion or not.

The very real and gory details of an abortion procedure do not mitigate the fact that every pregnant woman still has the right to decide whether or not she wants to give birth to an unwanted child.  And what about women and young girls who are raped?  Don't they have the right to the integrity of their own bodies, and to not be relegated to the status of a breeding cow?

What some people here have tried to explain is that there are many, many ways in this world in which women and sometimes VERY young children suffer incredibly because of someone's (usually a man's) selfish and destructive sexual desires.  Women and children are raped, genitally mutilated, gang raped, tortured, butchered, sold as slaves, and married off to pedophiles.  If you saw pictures of what happens to these little boys and girls, you would be better able to put your abortion pictures into perspective.

It is not that pro-choice women are somehow blind to the existence of the gory details of abortion; it is more true that these women are too well aware of the full extent of children's suffering in the world and have come to realize that there exists a direct correlation -- a bee-line, as it were -- to the status of women in society and their FULL equality.  Which means their right to decide when, how, and with whom to have children.  And in the case of third world women, how many children to bear and how close together.

These are basic human rights, but they have yet to be fully acknowledged, in large part because of the insistance of many well-intentioned people like yourself who believe that women should be constrained by law according to their reproductive capabilities.

Abortion IS a very sad procedure.  But it is not as sad as all of the suffering of the already-born. If you were to redirect your outrage towards child abuse punishment and prevention, this country and this world would be so much the better for it.

Jessica, I'm curious: do you celebrate birthdays, or conceptiondays?

When a woman miscarries, should she hold a funeral? Should the authorities investigate the cause of death of the fetus?

And since when are you not allowed to adopt if you're fertile? Fertile women can adopt. Even women who already have children can adopt. The reasons you give for not adopting are even dumber than the reasons you say we are giving for terminating a pregnancy. I can make my own babies too, but when I'm ready to start a family, I'm still going to adopt.

Maybe I should start campaigning for a law that makes all women make the same choices I will! Mandatory adoptions for all!

Jess, less than 1.5 percent of abortions are performed after 20 weeks. Almost 60 percent are done before 8 weeks. No wakes up at 20 weeks pregnant and says "hmmm, I don't think I want to be pregnant anymore, lets go have an abortion.".

While your beliefs are obviously very strong, they are highly uneducated. Your remarks prove that, with things like "The reason there are so many populating this earth is in part by people who have 10+ kids and then their kids have kids and so on and so on.". Tell that to the people in China with their 10 kids... oh wait, no one in China has 10 kids and yet they're over populated. Go figure. 

And your comment " If I couldn't have children myself, I would absolutely adopt.. and since my Husband is not white, I would adopt a mulit-raced child.  They are cuter anyways." First off, if you think adoption is the option for all these abortions the DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. I am so sick of people screaming "adoption adoption!" and then turning around and say "but its not for me, cause I can give birth to my own kids". Guess what, if you're going to insist that its the solution then you better be first in line to adopt those kids-and not just the "cute" ones, "ugly" babies need love too. Otherwise, you have no room to speak. As I said before, I've been there and done that, I have lived with a foster child and it was one of the most heartbreaking situations I have ever seen. Do you know what it's like to have a kid crying every night because his mother left him, because she wasn't ready to be a parent? Do you know what it's like to deal with the emotional backlash of a child who has phsyical and mental imparements because his mother couldn't bother to take care of her self while pregnant? No? I didn't think so.  
I'm happy for your belief in god, but what do you think is better, a fetus returning to its maker that has not suffered the abuse of a care giver, or the child who must live the life of hell before he meets his maker again? Because sadly, there are too many people like YOU in this world who like to say adoption is the option but wont take part in the process. 


 You say "I will make sure I don't get pregnant", well honey let me tell you, the only way you can be POSITIVE that you wont get pregnant again is to get a hysterectomy or abstain until menopause, because birth control can fail, it happens to people all the time. God forbid you ever find yourself in that situation, and are faced with that choice, because you have NO IDEA what it's really like. 

Actually, Elizabeth, the only 100% way to avoid pregnancy is going the hysterectomy route. A friend of mine was completely abstinent when she was raped (which, yes, resulted in a pregnancy. Which she aborted).

But then again, Jessica seems to be of the mindset that my friend, at the age of 12, should have fought harder against the grown man raping her, and just KEPT HER LEGS CROSSED. Because, after all, the woman -- er... or girl, whatever -- is responsible. Right?

Your absolutely right Criss! I was a bit aggitated and when I was writing. Hell, they told me I'd NEVER have kids, I have a four year old that proves otherwise so even infertility can't keep you from getting knocked up, it seems ;). 

Wow Elizabeth, told you were infertile and then you were pregnant. Very interesting story.

I had a doctor try and talk me into a hysterectomy at 19 to cover up a mistake he made during what should have been a routine d&c-he claimed tissue from a miscarriage ate a hole almost al the way through my uterus but what really happend was he botched it and almost took a hole out himself. Thank god I refused him but it wasn't until years later that I found out what really happened. They were right for 7 years, so imagine our shock when I was late one month. They thought I wouldn't be able to carry to term, but she stayed in until 38 weeks. Even suffering through that-and being infertile is a hell all in itself-I would never have told a woman she was wrong to have an abortion. 

"Abortion IS a very sad procedure.  But it is not as sad as all of the suffering of the already-born. If you were to redirect your outrage towards child abuse punishment and prevention, this country and this world would be so much the better for it."

I just stood up and applauded this.  I see it everyday.  I want to beg this strong "pro life" movement to redirect its tremendous passion to the living children who suffer everyday and are without uterus or stable home all together. 

What good is it to insist a woman to have a child because of your beliefs on how there is no other humane choice and then be caring for your own child while this woman's child suffers abuse after abuse?  How can this ever be a humane decision?

I think what disturbs me most about Jessica's posts is that she is a woman and yet she is not for the rights and freedoms of all women.  She can't get past the inhumanity in abortion to see that pregnancy and a woman's body is far too often used against her.  Women have been being controlled for their bodies and having their bodies abused by society for far too long and, as can be seen in Jessica's posts, the abuse is dolled out by both women and men. 

I know many of us have experience with or have seen cultural practices or customs that are created for the sole purpose of garnering control over a woman's body.

I fight for the rights of all women and their bodies.  It is not my body, not my consequences, so it is not my choice.  I fight for the rights and care of all living children too.  They are too young to understand that they are deserving and should be valued so that they can in turn make better choices.

For me, it is all about caring authentically for humanity with as little judgement as possible and as much empathy as possible.  It is all about choice.

It's ok to pray that god kill a fetus but not to get an abortion?Does't god know everything thats going to happen anyways? Why on earth would god induce a miscarriage to a woman who didn't want her fetus but wag the finger at the lady who takes matters into her own hands? 

Ever hear this? There was a man who was drowning. And a boat came and the man on the boat said, "Do you need help?" And the man said, "God will save me." Then another boat came and he tried to help him, but he said, "God will save me." Then he drowned and went to Heaven. Then the man told God, "God, why didn't you save me?" And God said, "I sent you two boats, you dummy, why didn't you get in one!" 

Also, your contradicting statements of men and women having equal opportunities, and then turning around and saying you think women should get equal pay because they obviously don't. Which is it you believe-we're all equals in opportunity, or women are obviously getting the shaft? You can't have it both ways.

Jessica, I do not believe you are reading what you write. I could sit here and pick apart your post, but really, what would accomplish? Nothing. We're all in agreement though that you wont be having any abortions any time soon and for that we're all so happy for you. In the meantime, please sit down and do some research on womens sufferage-knowledge is power.

Elizabeth,
Excellently put! I often use that story myself as an example. GOD HELPS THOSE WHO HELP THEMSELVES, after all.

Jessica, do you know what a funeral is? People who die of natural causes have funerals. For example, my father-in-law died of lung cancer a few years ago -- natural causes (he was not a smoker, btw). But we had a funeral for him. BECAUSE HE WAS A HUMAN BEING, a PERSON. A good friend of mine had a miscarriage earlier this year. She didn't even get excused from her classes for that semester at school. BECAUSE A FETUS IS NOT A PERSON. Not until it is BORN.

I'm still waiting for you to tell me if you celebrate your daughter's birthday or if you celebrate her conceptionday.

As for the rest of your post... *sigh* You're just yelling and throwing stones. You don't even care where or at whom you're throwing them, so I've stopped listening. (Unless you're going to answer my questions.)

Connor,
There are many reasons why Maggie, or any other woman in that situation, would not feel comfortable getting up and leaving. The whole point of those lectures is to intimidate the woman, scare and shame her into making the choice those people are imposing on her.

Men do get a say in abortion. You choose who you sleep with. If you would not be comfortable with me aborting our unplanned pregnancy, then don't have sex with me.

Once you make the choice to have sex with a woman, you have forfeited your vote, and the decision, to her. Because it's her body, not yours, that has to go through it (whichever choice she makes).

Look, I don't want to get in a plane crash. I would guess a plane crash would be a terribly unpleasant experience. You know what is the only 100% way to avoid being in a place crash? Never, ever getting on a plane, or choosing "not to participate in the activity that can produce a [plane crash]."

So, when a plane crashes, do the people on that plane deserve to die? Should we refuse them medical service, because they were irresponsible enough to get on that plane in the first place? They must have wanted to get in a plane crash, if they were going around flying all over the place!

What about car wrecks? If you stay off the streets, you won't get hit by a car. Why do so many people choose to participate in driving? What reckless, irresponsible people!

There's a reason God created birth control. There are many reasons why God created doctors, and led them to the medical advances that allow a woman to safely terminate a pregnancy. Every woman has a right to unbiased, medically accurate information about her choices, before and after sex.

Marie,

This country is run by Christians. We pledge allegiance to the flag using (the Christian) God's name, we have "In God We Trust" emblazoned on our money, and we have Christian values dictating what students can and cannot learn in school (abstinence-only "education," creationism/intelligent design). You cannot say Christians are being persecuted, because it is simply not true.

It is also disrespectful to the Christians who were persecuted, way back in the day, and had to hide from the law and hold mass in secret places, knowing they would be killed if they were discovered. I am a Christian, and I go to church with no problems on Sunday and even during the week; the Baptist church by my house even has policemen guiding traffic into the church. There is no religious perecution, especially not of Christians.

If you feel people say mean things about Christians, then you are free to express that opinion, but there is a huge difference between people expressing an opinion about the extreme religious right and that brand of "Christian", and persecution.