Food For Thought: The Link Between Eating Disorders and Vegetarianism
Published April 06, 2009 @ 03:12PM PT
A new study published in the Journal of the American Dietetic Association, indicates adolescent vegetarians are more likely to have an eating disorder than their peers.
The study was designed to investigate the relationships between vegetarianism, weight and dieting behaviors in teenagers and young adults. Researchers found that 15 to 23-year-old vegetarians had healthier dietary intakes and were less likely to be overweight. But they also displayed a higher incidence of disordered eating behaviors, including restriction, binging and purging. The highest risk group was young adults who'd formerly been vegetarians, with 27% displaying symptoms of an eating disorder.
On the surface, the simple explanation is that adolescents and young adults with eating disorders stop eating animal products to lose weight. Any diet that allows you to reject an entire food group can be manipulated to benefit an eating disorder. Vegetarianism can also be a convenient excuse for someone looking to minimize or skip meals. In these instances, refusing meat is manipulated as a method of restriction, which is distinctly different from vegetarianism motivated by morality or health concerns.
It's important to realize that just because an eating disordered person is a vegetarian, it doesn't mean they chose a vegetarian diet because of their eating disorder. Yes, I am a vegetarian, and I am a recovering bulimic and anorexia. I began cutting meats out of my diet when I was 11 years old, which was before I had an eating disorder. My vegetarianism continues to be an ethical choice and has nothing to do with weight loss.
But I do think my vegetarianism and eating disorder share a common trait: thinking beyond the plate. In a society that encourages inhaling mass-produced junk food on a daily basis, conscious eating is rare. Very few people actually contemplate what they put in their mouth or how it will affect their body. Such blind consumption contributes to a slew of health issues, including an obesity, heart disease and diabetes. To be aware of where your food came from, to consider the impact it will have on your body, is exceptional. At its best, this attitude leads people to adopt a vegetarian diet. At its worst, this awareness contributes to a destructive mental illness.
It only makes sense that people with eating disorders would also have moral opinions about where their food comes from. When you spend hours and days and years obsessing about the effect food has on your body, it makes sense to start thinking about the food itself. You consider the ingredients, the processing and ultimately the origin. Spend enough time pondering these answers and becoming a vegetarian seems inevitable. But that does not mean the vegetarianism is disordered, it merely means the disorder helped bring you to vegetarianism.
Even when they coexist, a vegetarian diet and an eating disorder do not need to be codependent. You can recover from an eating disorder without consuming meat. My treatment team was very respectful of my beliefs. They helped me setup a meal plan that incorporated alternative sources of protein. One of the advisers even made special trips to the natural food store and brought me black bean burgers every week. They proved it was possible to refrain from meat while learning to eat again.
I would like to end this post with some advice to concerned parents. Adolescent vegetarianism is not an eating disorder. It can be a very healthy and responsible diet. So if your child decides to become a vegetarian, actively support that choice. The first step is to engage them in a conversation. Talk about their reasoning, make sure they understand the beneficial impact this can have on our society and their long-term health, and make sure it isn't an unreasonable attempt to lose weight. Then ensure they still eat a balanced diet and get all the nutrition they need. That may mean cooking special meals or additional dishes, but try not to make them feel uncomfortable or left out at family meals. Do not, under any circumstances, shame them for their choice. Support their decision now and you'll build the foundation for a lifetime of healthy eating.
Photo credit: malias
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Thank you, thank you, thank you for writing this article.
I've been thinking a lot lately about the link between disordered eating and vegetarianism. I have been a vegetarian since I was about thirteen years old, and I have struggled with anorexia and bulimia since I was about fifteen. Now that I am in "recovery," I am still happily vegetarian, and have trouble exploring this link because I don't want to make it seem like becoming a vegetarian is a bad choice for young people, or that vegetarianism causes disordered eating, because those claims are far from the truth.
In my personal experience, once I transitioned from being a meat-eater to a vegetarian, my family focused a lot of negative attention on my eating habits. I am the only vegetarian in my family (extended members included) and they just don't understand why I would want to become a vegetarian. These negative comments and "jokes" at my expense at every meal (or really whenever I walked into the kitchen) directly contributed to my eating disorder, and I think this may be the link between a higher prevalence of disordered eating among teenage vegetarians.
I started taking my food and eating it in my bedroom alone by the time I was fifteen, actually, which was around the same time my eating disorder fully developed. This made it easier to dispose of the food (uneaten or eaten) in private while simultaneously avoiding the attention my family put on my eating habits. I was subsequently hospitalized four months before I turned eighteen for a small heart attack and various vitamin deficiences and was immediately put in a psychotheapy program when I began college. Looking back, I really should have been admitted to somewhere like The Ranch, where you spent some time, but we couldn't afford that and the psychotherapy program was free through my university.
When people close to you are focusing considerable attention, whether it's negative or positive, on the way you eat or what you eat, this only exacerbates the mental illness. My family still focuses a lot of attention my eating habits, but now the jokes have evolved into an odd sort of encouragement. Whenever I eat in front of my parents, they make remarks like "Oh good, you're eating!" or "Is that all you're going to eat? You sure you don't want more?" Or my mother's favorite, "See, you look so much better now that you've gained that weight back. Real women have curves, honey!" Or my aunt's favorite, "Dawn isn't fat because she's a vegetarian." I'm not sure how to communicate to them that even "positive" attention has a negative impact. I think it might hurt their feelings because they truly believe they are being supportive.
Posted by D W on 04/06/2009 @ 03:40PM PT
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P.S. I did not become a vegetarian to lose weight. That concern came later. I became a vegetarian for environmental reasons and also the nausea and indigestion I began to feel whenever I ate meat a couple of years prior to the transition.
Posted by D W on 04/06/2009 @ 03:46PM PT
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You ought to go to www.westonaprice.org and read about the damage veganism does to the environment. I take it you don't live in farming country, or you'd know that MULTITUDES of animals, even deer, are chopped to death by large farm machinery, and their babies left to starve. (Smaller sustainable farms don't have such big machinery)
You'd also know that the huge fields on which most plant crops are grown, damage the habitat of more animals (whereas the small mixed-farming practices PROTECT habitat).
You'd further know that crop yields would not be possible on the majority of farms, without huge fossil fuel inputs in the form of fertilizers (yes, they're made from fossil fuels) and diesel to run all those huge machines.
Think again, if you're vegetarian "to save the environment".
Posted by emily matthews on 04/14/2009 @ 11:48AM PT
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well, a few animals are always going to die accidentally, that's true. but it takes 16 pounds of those plants to produce a pount of meat. so that's sixteen times as many as vegan would be responsible for, and nothing compared to the 45 BILLION killed in the US annually.
Posted by sara h on 04/19/2009 @ 10:29AM PT
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oh, and PS, 90% of plant foods grown are used to feed animals that are raised to die for so called food
Posted by sara h on 04/19/2009 @ 05:30PM PT
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It seems to me that these facts from www.westonaprice.org really support the vegan sustainable argument.
Smaller sustainable farms would provide sufficient food for *people* the massive GMO crops are used primarily for animal feed and industrial purposes
Fossil fuel fertilizers do not sustain the topsoil and provide essential nutrients. Probably a big reason for our health problems and mental illness these days. Not to mention the land will eventually be wasted desert.
Excess meat consumption was encouraged as a result of increased crop yields, a way to extract profits from surplus from these unsustainable methods.
Posted by Jonathan Westbay on 04/20/2009 @ 04:17AM PT
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okay, well emily, how can you justify the needless murder of billions of animals per year? killing animals just because they may taste good is no reason. have you seen the PETA meet your meat video? how can any person just completely disconnect to fac that that animal was alive and had to suffer and die to be on your dinner plate, please think before you eat another sentient creature
Posted by sara h on 04/20/2009 @ 06:09PM PT
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Dawn - thanks for sharing your thoughts; I also was a vegetarian young and I have been stunned with how angry my family was about me not eating meat. I couldn't understand it.
How is it that food can polarize our friends, family and even ourselves?
Posted by Jen Nedeau on 04/06/2009 @ 06:57PM PT
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Thank you for sharing your story Dawn!
My parents weren't critical of my vegetarianism per se, but they also made it clear no one would cater to my diet. I completely understand that position, my parents were busy and didn't have time to cook two dinners every night. But it did make hiding an eating disorder much easier. Because I had a set a precedent of not having dinner with the family, they didn't realize when I was restricting or eating strange things or whatever.
To be clear, vegetarianism is not an eating disorder! I've seen several articles in the mainstream media that are sensationalizing this study. But I do recommend parents remain supportive and involved so they can have a positive influence on their teen's diet.
As for the "supportive" comments... I'm still trying to figure that one out. No matter what people say, or don't say, it never feels right. And when they ask me what they should say, or shouldn't say, I don't have an answer. Because I know that even when I'm healthy, my brain is applying an eating disorder filter to comments about food and weight.
Posted by Julie Neumann on 04/07/2009 @ 11:50AM PT
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"Because I know that even when I'm healthy, my brain is applying an eating disorder filter to comments about food and weight."
That is so true, thanks for pointing this out Julie. I'm not sure what to say either. I always put quotes around "recovery" because it never really ends, does it?
Posted by D W on 04/09/2009 @ 04:11PM PT
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Julie, I think this is one of the most interesting pieces I've ever read on these two subjects. And it makes a lot of sense--many vegetarians and vegans I've seen appeared very unhealthy (pasty, pale, undernourished and unfocused). Whether they had eating disorders I could not have said, but this was my observation. FTR, I am carnivorous--and, I often add, unapologetically so--but I believe that a diet involving meat and other animal products (e.g. dairy--milk, cheese, etc.) can still be healthy as long as these items are, like anything else, consumed in moderation. I understand the ethical problem some people have--I do believe in animal rights and that animals ought to be respected--but I have a very spiritual view where, say, hunting is concerned (to wit: if the animal's spirit is properly propitiated, then the gods governing such matters will understand--proper respect is key, as is hunting only your legal limit), and where farming is concerned, I support organic/free-range farming and have seen a number of these farms up close and know them to be what they claim (while being aware that others are not).
All that being said, I can't really imagine how an ethical concern, which is certainly justifiable, could lead to an eating disorder; those who suffer from anorexia nervosa or bulimia are less likely to be concerned about what's going into their bodies than what their bodies look like in general, at least from where I'm sitting. That's usually a result of a deeper emotional or mental problem, and a psychologically-troubled person can make all sorts of unusual value judgments that can lead to physical health problems.
Posted by William Feagin on 04/11/2009 @ 08:54AM PT
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Julie -- This is an interesting and thoughtful piece. One thing I would encourage you to think critically about, however, is the sensationalization of the "obesity epidemic." You include obesity in your list of ailments with heart disease and diabetes. There has been little to show a definitive link between fatness and ill health, unless there are other indicators such as high blood pressure, high cholesterol, high blood sugar or similar. A fat person with excellent blood panels is not necessarily in any better or worse health than a thin person with excellent blood panels. You may want to look into Health at Every Size (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_at_Every_Size) -- I think focusing more on health than size or weight is a good strategy for everyone, and would help work against a lot of the size-based shaming that people confront.
Posted by Carly Kocurek on 04/08/2009 @ 08:17AM PT
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When I was staying in Costa Rica, the mother of the family I lived with was surprised to find out I wasn't vegetarian. I was the first student she'd hosted, and most of the US students they got in that town were from a couple of liberal arts schools with high vegetarian populations, so it was actually the assumed default.
Then as my stay drew to a close, and she'd started thinking about having other students, she asked me what vegetarians ate. She was under the impression that they lived on lettuce salads and was relieved when I told her that a lot of the food she already made was just fine for vegetarians, like empanadas and fried plantains, or the beans and rice that we had with most meals. And this generally seems to be the case with world cuisines, that there are a lot more routine options for food that're both a substantial, balanced meal and lack meat.
When I experimented with being vegetarian for a while here in the US, otoh, I once got served, with the idea that it was sufficient for an entire meal, four large slices of alternated zucchini and yellow squash. It was beautifully prepared, but not at all filling. And I remember going to American-style restaurants, though this is more rare now, and there often being nothing substantial to eat on the menu that didn't have meat in it.
My Costa Rican hosts actually had a lot more in the way of healthy, varied, plant-based dishes in their standard repertoire than many Americans do, even if a cultural confusion had led to a misunderstanding.
Which is to say that I think the low level of general knowledge about what a healthy diet means, let alone one centered around whole grains and legumes, must leave many parents of would-be vegetarians totally baffled as to what to do. Also, vegetarianism is supposed to be healthy in and of itself, a belief that's likely even shared by a lot of people who think it's an odd choice, so it's probably tempting to throw up your hands.
The meat and potato-centric diet plan this country's been on for so long clearly has many victims.
Posted by Natasha Chart on 04/09/2009 @ 12:46AM PT
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The most likely reason that third world diets are more likely to be healthful vegetarian is that meat is expensive and takes a lot of time and effort to produce. The diets that have evolved have, by selection of the fittest if you will, a balance of carbohydrates and protein with the protein sources being amino acid balanced themselves. It isn't accidental that a typical third world diet will have two complementary protein sources together.
This is not the same as saying that third world diets are necessarily good. Often they will be high in lipids (for energy and taste) and deficient in vitamins (also expensive and unavailable.)
Posted by Daniel Miller on 04/11/2009 @ 03:20PM PT
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Great post. So frequently the two are linked together as many of you point out.
Posted by Robert Donat on 04/10/2009 @ 09:19AM PT
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Vegetarianism, in itself, is not an eating disorder. The following quotes, facts, figures, and statistics are excerpted from Please Don't Eat the Animals (2007) by Jennifer Horsman and Jaime Flowers:
"Nothing will benefit human health and increase chances for survival of life on earth as much as the evolution to a vegetarian diet."
---Albert Einstein
"Each year, the meat industrial complex abuses and butchers nearly 9 billion cows, pigs, sheep, turkeys, chickens, and other innocent, feeling animals just for the enjoyment of consumers. Each year, nearly 1.5 million of these consumers are crippled and killed prematurely by heart failure, cancer, stroke, and other chronic diseases that have been linked conclusively with the consumption of these animals. Each year, millions of other animals are abused and sacrificed in a vain search for a 'magic pill' that would vanquish these largely self-inflicted diseases."
---Alex Hershaft, PhD, president, Farm Animal Reform Movement
When analyzing 8,300 deaths in the United States, United Kingdom, and Germany among 76,000 men and women in five different, large studies, researchers concluded that vegetarians have a 24 percent reduction in death from heart disease.
Similarly, in the famous Oxford Vegetarian Study, where 6,000 vegetarians were compared with 5,000 meat-eaters over nearly two decades, scientists found that the rate of death from heart disease was 28 percent lower in vegetarians than in meat-eaters.
One study analyzed eighty scientific studies in leading medical journals. The analysis found that vegetarians had lower blood pressure, and were less likely to suffer from stroke, heart attack, and kidney failure.
A large German study of nearly 2,000 vegetarians found that deaths from heart disease were reduced by over one-third, and that heart disease itself was far less than that of the general population.
Another large study examined the coronary artery disease risk of young adults ages 18 to 30 and vegetarians were found to have much higher levels of cardiovascular fitness and a greatly reduced risk of heart disease.
"The process of gradual blocking of the coronary arteries begins not in adulthood but in childhood...and the main cause of this arteriosclerosis is the steadily increasing amount of fat in the American diet, particularly saturated animal fats such as those found in meat, chicken, milk and cheeses. If there was another disease that caused half a million deaths a year, you can be sure that the public would be acutely aware of the danger, and that the cure or prevention would be universally practiced."
---Dr. Benjamin Spock, author, child expert
"I don't understand why asking people to eat a well-balanced vegetarian diet is considered drastic, while it is medically conservative to cut people open and put them on powerful cholesterol-lowering drugs for the rest of their lives."
---Dr. Dean Ornish, author, Reversing Heart Disease
Stroke is the third leading cause of death behind heart disease and cancer. Vegetarians have a 20 to 30 percent reduced risk of having a stroke. Stroke, like heart disease, is associated with diets high in saturated fats, and the vegetarian diet is naturally low in these fats.
The Oxford Vegetarian Study found cancer mortality to be 39 percent lower among vegetarians when compared with meat-eaters. The European Prospective Investigation of Cancer found vegetarians suffer 40 percent fewer cancers than the general population.
Studies have shown that decreasing a woman's animal fat intake can reduce the chances that she will die from breast cancer. A large-scale, long-term study in the Netherlands found a powerful connection between the amount of animal fat consumed and the rate of prostate cancer. A review of a dozen studies found dietary fat strongly correlated with prostate cancer.
Ovarian, uterine, and endometrial cancers have all been shown to be strongly correlated to the amount of animal fat in one's diet, and vegetarian women have significantly lower rates of these cancers.
"The beef industry has contributed to more American deaths than all the wars of this century, all the natural disasters, and all automobile accidents combined."
---Dr. Neal Barnard, Executive Director, Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine
"Vegetarians have the best diet. They have the lowest rate of coronary disease of any group in the country. They have a fraction of our heart attack rate and they have only 40 percent of our cancer rate."
---William Castelli, MD, Director, Framingham Heart Study
"Human beings are not natural carnivores. When we kill animals to eat them, they end up killing us because their flesh, which contains cholesterol and saturated fat, was never intended for human beings, who are natural herbivores."
---Dr. William Roberts, editor-in-chief, American Journal of Cardiology
Posted by Vasu Murti on 04/10/2009 @ 10:19AM PT
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These are all good quotes, from Einstein to Nobel Prize winning MD's....
One often over-looked insight is the common physical traits herbivores have to the homosapien. We do not have the intestines of carnivores. We do not have the teeth of carnivores. Could be, that is one reason colon cancer is a deadly concern.
I've stopped eating all animals since I was 17. My family at the time, had concerns. Now, approaching my 56th year, they defer to my diet due to my excellent health.
Posted by Beverly Callistini on 04/10/2009 @ 04:28PM PT
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Your quotes and research are nicely hand picked to make your case. I can do the same thing with ease and provide links to all the research if you ask. Credentialed experts or statements made by famous people doesn't mean they are the "last word" on any subject. For example, Gandhi was unable to live on a vegan diet he finally declared vegan claims fraudulent - those who insisted that veganism was possible he defined to be "enemies of India".
Oftentimes, vegans and vegetarians will try to scare people into avoiding animal foods and fats by claiming that vegetarian diets offer protection from certain chronic diseases like the ones listed above. Such claims, however, are hard to reconcile with historical and anthropological facts. All of the diseases mentioned are primarily 20th century occurrences, yet people have been eating meat and animal fat for many thousands of years. Recently introduced "food like substances" like hydrogenated vegie oils and factory farmed meats (gm corn based), genetically modified vegetables devoid of nutrients (but designed to look nice) and all the garbage processed convenience foods are never cited in research as the link. Not to mention the way these "foods" are "cooked" if you call blasting them with microwaves or very "high heat" cooking.
It is usually claimed that vegetarians have lower cancer rates than meat-eaters, but a 1994 study of vegetarian California Seventh Day Adventists showed that, while they did have lower rates for some cancers (e.g., breast and lung), they had higher rates for several others (Hodgkin's disease, malignant melanoma, brain, skin, uterine, prostate, endometrial, cervical and ovarian), some quite significantly. In that study the authors actually admitted that:
Meat consumption is not associated with a higher [cancer] risk (remember Linda McCartney?).
No significant association between breast cancer and a high consumption of animal fats or animal products in general was noted.
Further, it is usually claimed that a diet rich in plant foods like whole grains and legumes will reduce one's risks for cancer, but research going back to the last century demonstrates that carbohydrate-based diets are the prime dietary instigators of cancer, not diets based on minimally processed animal foods.
The belief that animal protein contributes to heart disease is a popular one that has no foundation in nutritional science. Outside of questionable studies, there is little data to support the idea that meat-eating leads to heart disease. For example, the French have one of the highest per capita consumption of meat, yet have low rates of heart disease. In Greece, meat consumption is higher than average but rates of heart disease are low there as well. Finally, in Spain, an increase in meat eating (in conjunction with a reduction in sugar and high carbohydrate intake) led to a decrease in heart disease.
The mainstream health and vegetarian media have done such an effective job of "beef bashing," that most people think there is nothing healthful aboutmeat, especially red meat. In reality, however, animal flesh foods like beef and lamb are excellent sources of a variety of nutrients as any food/nutrient
table will show. Nutrients like vitamins A, D, several of the B-complex, essential fatty acids (in small amounts), magnesium, zinc, phosphorous, potassium, iron, taurine, and selenium are abundant in beef, lamb, pork, fish and shellfish, and poultry. Nutritional factors like coenzyme Q10, carnitine, and alpha-lipoic acid are also present. Some of these nutrients are only found in animal foods--plants do not supply them.
I don't care what you eat or do as long you don't deny me my right to consume what I've determined from the research and my "self-science".
Posted by Joe Marsh on 04/11/2009 @ 01:01PM PT
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Dean Ornish and Caldwell Esselstyn, both promoted spartan diets with unhealthy recommendations for unnaturally low fat intakes. Ornish, for example, published a study where the arteries of an intervention group reportedly widened in comparison to a group not recieving the intervention treatment.
Ornish's treatment group recieved a multiple intervention treatment - excercise five days a week, smoking cessation, meditation and group counselling in addition to a low fat vegetarian diet. Ornish used several different treatments in his intervention group but when speaking with journalists and writing for the public, talks as if the low fat diet was the decisive factor in his study. One cannot in good conscience make this claim when there is absolutely no proof to back it up - one of the most basic rules of science is to control your variables. All Ornish can claim from his study is that a MULTILPE intervention, encompassing all the tactics he used, was successful in widening arteries. We know that excercise can widen arteries, and that was one of the interventions Ornish used. There is no evidence a vegan diet can achieve this effect. Ornish should be honest enough to admit this, but instead he persistently bad mouths all but the most austere low fat diets.
The China Study in yet another bogus study were the evidence is selected, presented, and interpreted with the goal of making the case for vegan philosophy. You simply can't talk reason and true science and tradition to many fundlementalist vegans - It's pointless. I have no problem letting them consume what they want. I just wish they'd stop using bogus studies and ingnoring the fact that there is no basis in anatomy or physiology for the assumption that humans are pre-adapted to the vegetarian diet.
Why the China Study is Flawed:
http://www.westonaprice.org/bookreviews/chinastudy.html
http://www.cholesterol-and-health.com/Campbell-Masterjohn.html
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2006/02/23/why-the-china-study-is-flawed.aspx
This publication is not only hogwash that leaves out most of the actual "China Study" data, but interestingly leaves out a lot of other data that is clearly pertinent to who the author is, what agenda and biased attitude he brings to this publication and what political purposes are actually being served by what is masquerading as a "health book".
This doesn't even appear to be the real data of "The China Study". The fact of the matter is that Campbell takes data and:
1. Slants the data so that it is misleading.
2. Completely misinterprets the data - in some cases making concluding statements in regards to specific data when the data clearly (even to a layman) showed just the opposite!
3. Misrepresents of what the data actually said!
In his "so-called" rebuttal, Campbell NEVER does really address any of the valid points that critics have specified in this work.
Is Campbell deliberately lying to us? Or is he merely suffering from an inability to cast aside his own personal prejudices and present a full and objective presentation of the facts, because the facts conflict with what he wants to believe?
The facts, as anyone who actually peruses the data produced by the study Campbell claims to have drawn his conclusions from (which can be found in Chen J, et al. Diet, life-style, and mortality in China: A study of the characteristics of 65 Chinese counties. Oxford, UK; Ithaca, N.Y. Oxford University Press; Cornell University Press, 1990.), show that consumption of animal protein - especially meat - was associated with a 29% REDUCED risk of mortality, not an increased risk, as Campbell claims.
I do not like the incomplete reporting of data to suit someones philosophy, but I do believe that the best diet is real wholefoods minimally 49% lightly cooked and 51% raw AND TOTALLY based on YOUR OWN PERSONAL METABOLIC TYPE. Some do better on more meat and raw dairy and some not.
So where did Campbell get his claims? Who knows. Wherever he got them, it's definitely not from the study he named his book after.
Posted by ROBERT FLINCH on 04/11/2009 @ 01:13PM PT
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Excellent article! I've started paying attention to what I eat and what's in it. I haven't become a vegetarian but I've been getting organic grass-fed meat instead of the mass-produced stuff.
I'd never heard of vegetarianism bing linked to eating disorders before (low weight and vitamin deficiencies, yes, but not eating disorders), and I appreciate this article because it's opened my mind.
Posted by Heather McClellan on 04/10/2009 @ 12:38PM PT
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Thanks for sharing! The linkage between vegetarian and disorders can only reflect the short of information about the balanced vegetarian diet. If the public are more informed how to eat whole and balanced food, the disorder problems will be no problem. As a vegetarian for over 15 years, with two born vegetarian healthy kids (never touch any meat), I believe with parents support, kids can be healthier after changing to vegetarian diet, and also they are going to be smarter and loving(check the link: http://www.suprememastertv.com/bbs/board.php?bo_table=sos_video&wr_id=92&goto_url=&url=link1_0
). The government and media should support this healthy and compassionate living style.
Posted by Ruby Wang on 04/10/2009 @ 04:29PM PT
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Well, I reject out of hand the notion, premise, assumption, whatever, that vegetarians are more "ethical" because they choose to not eat meat, or that vegetarianism is more "healthy" than omnivorism.
The ethical arguement falls apart because nature is already eating itself, animals eat each other, and even if humans were to stop, nature would not. If humans eating animals is unethical, than nature is as well.
And it's false to believe or conclude that just being or becoming a vegetarian will make you healthier. At some point or for some individuals this may be true, or for a certain period of time, but just meet or do a statistical survey of vegetarians and you will conclude that not all these people are icons of health the rest of us would want to emulate.
Vegetarians over time run cumulative deficiencies in certain nutrients they might otherwise obtain from meat. Some animal products are higher in certain nutrients than others, which is why chinese medicine dietary therapy recommends different meal recipes to different patients, and these include specific animal as well as vegetable and herbal recommendations/ prescriptions. This is not based upon simple concepts of satiety or "comfort" foods, but of biochemical individuality; however it's not wrong to conclude that a person well- nourished is also more happy AND healthy. That does NOT presume everyone should sit down to the same meat-&- potatoes Sunday dinners that were the mainstay of American middle-class parents, or that any particular diet or choice of foods over time, won't affect your health for good or ill because it will. My point is that what you eat WILL affect you and what I eat WILL affect me, and I cannot and shouldn't have to eat what you do just to satisfy your EMOTIONAL needs or "ethical" ideas just to make YOU happy where my
HEALTH is concerned. That violates MY right to do MY experiment!
I'm not disparaging responsible dietary experimentation, life is an experiment anyway. And I respect everyone's choice of "ethics" to not eat meat for non "cruelty" reasons, but such logic also misses the bigger picture, that nature IS cruel, any one person's dietary choices not withstanding. It is not more humane watching a wildcat stalk and kill a deer, a jumping-spider stalk and catch a fly, or a zoo-plankton engulf a protozoa; these are simply examples of nature feeding herself.
I don't think it's any less cruel, telling a subsistance hunter or fisherman that he must stop his way of life or eating, just because it violates your new-found "ethical" code, ignoring the fact his ancestors have been doing it for generations such that his dietary choices are written into his DNA. It also ignores the fact that even if certain vegetable foods could substitute, s/he may not be able to afford them. I don't know how many of you have priced a lb. of cashews lately compared to a lb. of chicken.
If vegetarians want to convince the majority to stop eating meat then I think they should start working toward making vegetarian protein substitutes more affordable and nutritionally comparable to animal sources. Don't just quote
statistics from authors or brow-beat us with your BELIEFS.
If you're young, your body can tolerate more mistakes and dietary abuse, which may even be necessary as you search to quantify your dietary needs.
The fact is I was a vegan for 14 years, as self-righteous and militant about my ethical superiority as any of you. I corrected certain nutritional problems from my past diet, but also incurred new ones. Make no mistake, any changes you make to your diet IS AN EXPERIMENT, you cannot fail to BE
responsible for those choices. I found as for mine, I was spending most of my time in bed, contemplating the chemical consequences of those choices. At some point I realized the experiment was costing me too much time from what I'd been given, but also at the advice of a chinese physician, who gave me the option of eating animal foods, or die, because yes, my dietary experiment had gotten me into that much trouble.
Of course vegetarians will keep searching for different reasons why the rest of us should see and behave their way where it comes to food; their choice of diet is their "faith" and they want to convert everyone just as much as any televangelist.
That's based upon the simplistic but false notion that if we all share the same virus or belief-system/sense of conformity, then earth will be transformed into heaven. but it's also based upon simple hubris, that I'm pretty damn good/(morally superior), and you should be JUST LIKE ...me.
All I can tell you is, that as positive and certain the arguements for vegetarianism might sound, they most certainly don't apply to everyone all the time, and respecting those times and circumstances when they don't, may be the actual touchstone for whether you live in an ethical society, or not.
Posted by D v on 04/10/2009 @ 05:21PM PT
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thanks dean for a well thought out response. i think a huge part of the vegetarian thing is a difficulty coping with the fact of death. in some ways vegetarianism is just one step beyond hiring people to butcher and cook your meat for you. for example my girlfriend, a former vegetarian, loves chicken, as long as it doesn't look like a bird! bones, fat, etc just turn her stomach.
Posted by charles faris on 04/10/2009 @ 08:30PM PT
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Well thought out? it is shot through with logical flaws and dubious assumptions. The argument about the moral equivalence of animal survival and human meat consumption is trite and insulting. We do not need meat to survive. Our sense of reason, ethics and compassion is what supposedly separates us from wild animals. The anecdotal evidence about the health of vegetarians the author has met is worthless. There are studies showing that a vegetarian diet leads to improved health. Being as the author seems to like anecdotal evidence, try talking to vegetarians. Good luck finding one who does not claim improved health. The claim about deficits in nutrients is wrong. There is one essential nutrient (Vitamin B12) which cannot be obtained through a vegan diet. It is easily supplemented. Nice reach with the cashews. How about comparing a pound of organic beans to a pound of chicken? Setting up a false comparison of cheap meat versus expensive premium nuts is illogical. I've been vegan for a long time, and I am not militant, self-righteous or convinced of my ethical superiority. If the poster was dying because of his diet, it is apparent that very little thought was put into his dietary choices. While I disagree with the characterizations of vegetarians, everyone is entitled to their opinions.
Posted by Matthew Roman on 04/11/2009 @ 06:29AM PT
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Well, Matthew, you may not be militant or believe yourself morally superior, but most of us have met vegans or vegetarians who are and do, and I believe that's one of the things Dean was getting at. And the amount of protein you can get from a pound of cashews is a good deal less than you'd get from a pound of chicken or beef--in fact, to get the proper daily amount of protein, you really only need 4 oz. of meat. As for vitamin B12, you can also get that from a half-pint of Guinness quite easily--this fact is behind that company's classic ad campaign "Guinness is Good for You." Others argue about iron--the body needs it, of course, and you can get plenty of it from leafy greens (e.g. spinach--Popeye was onto something there!), but not quite as much as 4 oz. of red meat. When it comes to animal products, it's like anything else--in moderation, no problem. But I will never agree with the argument that humans are naturally herbivorous; go back to our prehistoric ancestors--the Cro-Magnon, for starters--and you'll see they ate meat. We still have the necessary dental structure and digestive tract to eat meat, we always have. Protein deficiency is no joke.
Posted by William Feagin on 04/11/2009 @ 09:09AM PT
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Nicely stated Dean. Thanks
Posted by Joe Marsh on 04/11/2009 @ 12:53PM PT
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Thnaks for the informative post, Julie. My teenage daughter chose the vegetarian way several months ago - for her concern of treatment of animals - and you've given me some good insights on helping support her in that choice.
Posted by Ted Nunn on 04/10/2009 @ 07:11PM PT
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"Thanks", I mean...
Posted by Ted Nunn on 04/10/2009 @ 07:11PM PT
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I became vegetarian very gradually, and have never gone vegan. I wish vegetarian activists would get over their all or nothing attitude. I know lots of meat eater who also eat veggie burgers. The problem, which is worse by far in the US than anywhere else, is just how badly the meat is being produced. If you go to Mexico, the quality is far superior. And this is for one main reason- we raise most of it on corn. This is a terrible system, and our market is flooded with unnecessarily cheap meat products. I claim no superiority bacuse I do eat cheese and eggs which are just as much part of the problem. I hardly every have a problem finding vegetarian foods, and think what I eat is basically my own choice and no-one else's. Recently Paul McCartney disparaged the Dalai Lama for eating meat. His doctors basically told him he had to. And many people have found that being veg actually leads to increased weight, due I would guess to the excess amounts of starches it is really easy to eat. The main thing that keeps me from eating meat is BSE and also having worked in a chicken restaurant for 10 years. If we raised our food animals on family farms and had a culture that considered meat to be something for a special occasion not an every day meal, my diet would most likely be different. When I travel outside the US, I tend to be more likely to eat meat. I used to eat fish but have stopped due to the plastic in the ocean thing, which killed my appetite for it.
Posted by Justin Hughes on 04/10/2009 @ 11:37PM PT
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"To be aware of where your food came from, to consider the impact it will have on your body, is exceptional."
I agree with the first part, disagree with the second. It is rare to think about the ethical implications of where your food came from, but the act of putting food in our mouths is so steeped in ethos in this country that few of us can escape it. We have "good" food and "bad" food, where the bad food category often comprises, not just junk food, but anything with a high caloric content, like mashed potatoes or even veggies with butter on them. We have rules about when and how much to eat--fist-sized portions! No food after 9 PM! Eat breakfast so your metabolism will start working faster! Of course there are many variants of these rules floating around, and many people ignore them most or all of the time, but they ignore them, so to speak, while being conscious of them. They know that choosing to eat this whole bagel with cream cheese is a transgressive act (omg the carbs!!). That's why we get "sinful" chocolate sundaes and phrases like, "Well, I shouldn't, but just one bite..." This is all tied up in a dieting culture where eating the food your body seems to be asking for is no longer the norm. And while going so far as to develop an eating disorder is the exception, it is dangerous to ignore that norm: the norm where we are hyperconscious of the supposed good/badness of everything we eat (in terms of how it will affect us, not in terms of its origins) instead of eating a variety of foods and learning to listen to our bodies when they tell us what and how much we should eat.
Yes, eating that way will lead to many becoming overweight and obese. But guess what? So will eating pretty much any other way. And it won't be because the ones who are obese are eating so much more on average than the ones who stay thin; it will be because there are simply people whose bodies are naturally obese, and who, as Carly said above, can be perfectly healthy in that state. They will likely be less healthy if they try to starve themselves down to an "acceptable" size according to narrow societal definitions, but many of them will do so anyway (and eventually fail, in about 95% of cases), because our society is so saturated with fat hatred and the supposed morality of weight and consumption that it's impossible to escape. So please, don't imply that obese people become that way because they blindly shovel down junk food, and don't imply that the size of their bodies, on its own, is unhealthy. And please don't assume that people who develop eating disorders are exceptional in assigning an unreasonable amount of value to the food they eat.
Posted by Jenny Wolahan on 04/11/2009 @ 03:50AM PT
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Agreed, Jenny, and thank you! I've battled weight problems most of my life and have had type-2 diabetes since I was 25 (I'm 40 now and control it mainly through diet and medication), but it's certainly not only because of junk food. And my wife, a big beautiful woman and the love of my life, would most certainly agree.
Posted by William Feagin on 04/11/2009 @ 09:14AM PT
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Bravo Matthew! I agree with you, "Our sense of reason, ethics and compassion is what supposedly separates us from wild animals." Even animals don't eat other weak beings if they are full. How about our human being? We have so many alternative choices, why bother to stain your hands with blood of innocent animal?
Vegan/vegetarian diet is more healthy, that's truth and facts. Check our own country, as well as China and some fast growing countries, after people change their diet into more meat diet, how about their health? Higher cancer rate, diabetes, cardiac problems, obesity. For more information, please visit: http://www.suprememastertv.com/bbs/board.php?bo_table=featured&wr_id=261&goto_url=&url=link2_0
And also, for the costs of meat and nuts, I think people better check the government policy, how much money the government has to subside meat industry in order to maintain the current price. Without the subsides, 1 lb of meat should cost $30 instead of $5. How much resource does the meat production cost our planet? According to World Bank latest research, over 50% of green house gases come from livestock raising. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tITyy8FKWM
As for B12, that's the old concepts, latest research shows our body has the ability to synthesis B12. And also, many fermented food, such as fermented beans, seaweed and many more, contain high levels of B12.
For our health, for our conciousness, for our planet, be Vegetarian/vegan.
Posted by Ruby Wang on 04/11/2009 @ 06:59AM PT
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Ruby:
Yes, the young will always assert their newness,
freshness, uniqueness, like they discovered it all by their lonesomes. Personally I prefer a particular Bible quote better: "Nothing new under the sun."
That research you quoted isn't the latest, in fact it's over 20 years old and very suspect. (incidentally "new research" doesn't mean new bacteria.)
It has everything to do with one's intestinal flora. I've eaten those fermented food products you talk about during my 14 year vegan experiment, and the fact is they really don't hold a candle to meat. Maybe I just had an absorbtion problem, but fact is that B-12 deficiencies are common to vegetarians, that's why doctors recommend a B-12 supplement, but taking a pill isn't very "natural," is it. Seems a bit of kefir (milk) daily, supports long life, but milk isn't a vegetable, infers the raising of cows, keeping them pregnant, eating the meat, etc., i.e. dairy farms/meat factories might be necessary to enjoy the best lifespan.
And there are plenty of other deficiencies a vegetarian can run. Zinc, iron and certain amino acids to name a few. Not everyone synthesizes the same, so to generalize about chemical possibilities doesn't really address individual, personal needs. Statistics mean nothing when your personal experience proves them wrong. Maybe they're right, but wrong for YOU.
Sure, maybe meat IS subsidized. So let's subsidize seed and nut growers too. Let's also work on vegetarian protein substitutes in the lab, made from bacteria, with all the nutrition and flavor of animal foods. I'm sure a vegetarian genetic engineers could "get it done" if s/he wanted to.
The world will NEED cheap meat substitutes when
the population doubles or triples again in YOUR lifetime.
I really don't have a problem with vegetarians as long as they don't get rabid like PETA about their personal choices, or stand up on a soap-box to harangue me about how "ethically superior" they think they are. If I paint a purple dot on my nose, that makes me more ethical than you. This obsession with food makes me think you have nothing bigger to think about. Fact is that chemistry will keep bringing you back down to earth until you find your own magical key to open
all your unknown biochemical locks, while time consumes your candle. Anne Wigmore, lovely woman, put sprouts, fermented seed products, grasses on the map, died of cancer. For that matter, the same diseases take all vegetarians, humans AND animals, eventually.
Enjoy your experiment.
Posted by D v on 04/12/2009 @ 08:08PM PT
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Dean,
Thanks for your comments! There are more and more latest researches show the harmful effects of meat consumption. As for mineral deficiency, it can easily fixed. Raw food, such as brown rice, whole grains, and all sorts of nuts contain all the minerals that you need.
Since our daily diet, mostly use processed materails, such as bleached flours, long rice, mixed with high sugar, these are very harmful for our body.
I believe you are a highly educated one, you can do research yourselve. I forgot the researchers name (maybe around bay area in SF), found there are toxic chemical in all meat products, even in milk.
Whatever we eat will affect our body, emotion and spirit. As you've mentioned, YOU are the one who reap the good and the bad. Enjoy your exploration and find the best one for YOU.
Posted by Ruby Wang on 04/14/2009 @ 03:26PM PT
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This article is really strangely timed. I just submitted a paper for my women's health class on eating disorders and while I was writing it and doing research, I realized my bulimia came almost immediately after my parents made me stop being vegetarian. They're huge Atkins fans and so they were never supportive of my vegetarianism. I felt so good health and self-esteem-wise when I was vegetarian, though, so their attitudes really pushed me to subconsciously rebel with bulimia.
Posted by L J on 04/11/2009 @ 08:01AM PT
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I have thought a lot about links between various decisions about the foods one eats and came across some interesting information that discussed vegetarianism. I can't remember where I saw this information (I know, not helpful), but it noted that vegeterianism and eating disorders were often correlated. One reason was that which you mentioned, but it also mentioned that those who develop eating disorders are often strongly concerned about issues greater than themselves (i.e. war, etc.). There is often a connection between those who have eating disorders and their sensitivity to others or to world issues. That could be an explanation as to why so many people with eating disorders are vegetarians because they are concerned about the effects of eating meat - environmentally and the effects on the animals themselves. I thought this was a very interesting perspective and one that rang true in my own experiences.
Posted by Megan Tebay on 04/11/2009 @ 10:54AM PT
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Thank you for the article and all the following comments. I have gone in and out of being a veggie and was vegan for a day! It may be a measure of how "controlling" people you know are based on their reactions about any of your preferences!
I for one am glad when ever I look beyond the plate and find I feel best if I eat for nutrition and no other reason
Mary
Posted by Mary Powell on 04/12/2009 @ 10:33PM PT
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At least 80% of all foods sold in SUPERMARKETS contain some GMO components. PEOPLE EAT GMOs. You miss the point re eating meat: animals can graze where NO crops can be grown. Which is why small mixed-farming practices work best, and always did, until agra-giants came in and wrecked things.
It's true, factory-farmed animals are raised on unsustainably-grown crops. I never believed for a moment that factory farms are good. But if you eat ANYTHING that was bought in a supermarket, especially anything made with grains, you are part of the problem, as grains and most vegetables are grown on CAFOs for plants; huge monocoropping systems which deprive many animals, especially birds, of habitat.
And, sorry to tell you, but it's not "just a few" animals killed accidentally by machinery. Try hundreds of thousands! All those grain and veggie crops cover thousands of acres, therefore the huge numbers of animals killed.
And HOW would you fertilize a vegan field without huge inputs of SOME kind of fertilizer? You haven't been able to refute the fact that most grains (which I assume vegans eat) ARE grown unsustainably, and the fact that animals contribute to the health of the soil through their manure.
Sure, one could import guano from S. America (at huge cost) or seaweed (again, at huge cost) or some other costly method of fertilizing (like the petrofertilizers currently used) if one did not have animals. But how sustainable would that be?
The quote "16 lbs" refers to what? Corn? Would just one lb be enough for you? How do you know? And isn't there a better thing to eat than corn, which is high in sugar? A better way to look at it would be this: Calculate the number of acres needed to support one human, then calculate the number needed to support livestock.
According to one man's estimate of what he'd need to eat to get his minimum daily requirement (of calories, not vitamins or minerals), one person would need around 7 acres to grow their food for a year, MINIMUM. (This is his estimate of what he'd need to eat on a daily basis; done after he quit being a vegan: ·
Over one full gallon (20 cups - five quarts) of raw chopped mixed vegetables and salad including (560 calories):
· 3 1/3 cups broccoli
· 3 1/3 cups shredded carrots
· 2 2/3 cups summer squash
· 5 1/3 cups spinach
· 1 1/3 cup beets
· 4 cups dinner salad
· Two bananas and two oranges (440 calories)
· 12 tablespoons barley powder
· 19 almonds
· 21 oz. carrot juice
· 8 oz potato
· 1 1/3 slice bread
· One tablespoon Udo's Choice Perfected Oil Blend
This calculation is based on my knowledge of how many acres it takes to grow vegetables. It would probably take a lot more acreage than that, due to the number of acres needed to grow grains, but since I'm not familiar w-growing grains, we'll leave them out. (I grow most of our vegetable food in our garden, fertilized for free by our sheep.)
Then take how many sheep could be raised on seven acres of rotated pasture: 70 to 80! (YES, we do this and they and the land, thrive!) Then consider that meat is a nutrient-dense food, giving more calories, minerals, and B12 per lb than any plant could; therefore the person would not need to eat as much. So we could feed 20 families off those 7 acres assuming they each had 3-4 sheep per year, and they wouldn't be short of the fat-soluble vitamins and minerals that vegans often are short of.
Then consider that across the world, people who raise livestock, graze them on non-arable land; I've seen if for myself when I lived in Europe. Even in the US, if all those acres wasted growing corn were put to use growing grass and small grains, we'd be a lot better off.
The point is, for many farmers across the world, keeping a few hens and a pig or a few sheep costs very little, and gives much higher-grade nutrition (in terms of being nutrient-dense) than veganism, which is only truly possible in areas where there is abundant food anyway.
Did you know there are herders in desert parts of Africa, that couldn't grow crops even if they tried, let alone tried to be vegans? They have sheep which they have bred (over the centuries) that can live off dry dead plants that blow into the area.
As I said before, think again about veganism, and look up the srticle on www.westonaprice.org called "The (Vegan Ecological) Wasteland"
Posted by emily matthews on 04/20/2009 @ 12:06PM PT
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One thing that I feel wield is most of grains that were produced are fed to grazing animals, not vegan or vegetarian. Those innocents animals are wasted because of the way of farming, not because of vegan diet.
Meat is not nutritious, instead it is full of toxins, check the web page for the latest discovery.
http://www.suprememastertv.com/vegetarian-resources/
Accoring to Dr. Campell's research, our human being doesn't need much protein. If we take more protein than we need, it is going to be harmful to our body.
http://www.suprememastertv.com/featured/Dr-Campbell-The-China-Study--Reducing-Risk-of-Disease-through-a-Vegan-Diet.html
Some have mentioned that meat-eaters look healthier than vegetarian, have you heard of hormone in meat? Have you heard of body builder use hormones in their diet? Have you made the connections between the two? Please do the research for yourself, many of meat-eaters are the unknowing victims of current factory farming (victims of hormones).
All in all, vegetarian/vegan is good for your health and for our planet as well. Small family farming (organic way) is the best. But please don't eat the innocent and lovely animals. They are our friends. How can one eat their friends?
http://www.suprememastertv.com/featured/Mike-Anderson-The-Rave-Diet.html
http://www.suprememastertv.com/bbs/board.php?bo_table=featured&wr_id=238&goto_url=&sca=&page=2&url=link2_0#v
Posted by Ruby Wang on 04/20/2009 @ 03:34PM PT
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I'm a vegetarian and I'm not sure how to interpret the findings of this study. It's always important to know the methodology before deciding how much to accept the findings and how much to question them. Does anybody know if any additional research has been done on links between vegetarianism and eating disorders?
Posted by Passionate Activist on 04/24/2009 @ 12:29PM PT
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From what I can tell, this is the first study that specifically looked for a connection between the two. It has popped up as a tangential finding in other studies, most prominently when looking at diets in adult women. Cutting out food groups, which ranges from low carb to vegetarianism, is one of the most popular dieting methods. And it appears that if there is any connection, that is the direction it is going -- vegetarianism does not cause these issues, but people with disordered eating and eating disorder may use vegetarianism as an excuse for their behavior.
Posted by Julie Neumann on 04/24/2009 @ 02:13PM PT
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