Digg Community Responds to Change.org CR Efforts
Published December 23, 2008 @ 10:34PM PT
In writing the piece "Is Digg Sexist?" yesterday, I certainly got a lot more attention than I was expecting.
Over 600 diggs. Over 400 comments. Several mentions within the blogosphere - including Jezebel, Feministing and Real Clear Politics. Oh yeah, and a counter argument to my post, with a side of bacon.
Perhaps the most encouraging moment from the consciousness raising (CR) effort about the site's seemingly misogynistic nature was a private apology by a Digg user:
Well, I saw your post on Digg.
I'd just like to say that I apologize. I didn't mean to offend you or anyone else. I'm not at all sexist....
I'm an idiot for not having better judgment, and looking at the submission I see exactly why it is offensive, disrespectful, and wrong.
I know your post was directed at the community as a whole, but I appologize if I contributed to any sexist agenda at all on Digg.
The race for Diggs is brutal. The submissions made popular do indeed speak for the community. But in defense of the community, it was most probably dugg out of humor, not sexism. Though humor of this nature may possibly represent a corrupt sense of humor, it is moreso a representation of digg's immaturity than it's sexism against women.
By challenging the Digg community about it's motives, I learned a lot about how the online community operates and how it chooses to defend itself. I learned that there are people on Digg who are doing the right thing, while there are others who choose to follow the flock and use the anonymity of the internet to participate in a culture they would never engage with in the real world.
Initially when I wrote the piece, I didn't even expect it to get voted up Digg at all. The piece was never about how many Diggs I could get; it was never about a traffic boost or being "link bait."
It was about staring sexism straight in the face and saying - I won't let you intimidate me. It was about consciousness raising - a central tenet to the feminist movement. It was about taking a small action in the hope of greater change.
In the end - my question about whether or not Digg is sexist did just what I hoped - it raised the consciousness of the seemingly sexist nature of the social news site.
Here are some of the more enlightening conclusions from this effort:
Sexist Digg Users Does Not a Sexist Site Digg Make?
I got a lot of feedback from male and female users who said that while there are many immature, offensive remarks on Digg that can appear to be sexist, racist, homophobic - these individuals are not representative of the whole.
Commentator B D disagreed with my post, but explained his point of view well:
The answer to your question is of course no. It's not Digg that is sexist, but those Digg readers who post the dumb comments. Just remember that the most frequent commenters on those kind of sites are the ones who spend their lives posting moronic comments because they have no other life. They are not representative of all society, at least that's the way I think about it. You get one idiot who posts a dumb comment and the rest follow him (yes, it's always him) like sheep.
While I do agree to an extent - I do not think it is enough to push the blame elsewhere. For those users who say they aren't sexist, then you must stand up for equality. You can't sit back and let sexist or racist or homophobic comments or actions happens. Not online and not in the real world. You need to be the change you wish to see in the world. Excusing yourself from the larger group, won't create the accountability that Digg needs.
Anonymity Breeds Irresponsibility; Internet Transparency Will Create Greater Accountability
Within this social media experiment, I also got first hand experience with the Greater Internet FuckWad Theory.
In order to make Digg less sexist, it requires that the site's users become more transparent about who they are. As seen in the apology above and many of the comments - the anonymity of the internet allows seemingly normal people to act in a manner that is several notches below their typical integrity (aka the Internet Fuckwad Theory). The fight against sexism on sites such as Digg or YouTube will have to happen in tandem with the fight for greater transparency of user profiles. Until then - few can be held accountable for their actions and words.
Bill Hodgson summarized this idea quite well in his comment:
I agree with this specific analysis of comments on Digg - if Digg were a conversation in your front room - you wouldn't be sharing such a picture, nor making the sexist comments featured. The fact that this is on-line, allows this behaviour, the same way it's easy to write in emails things you wouldn't say to someone's face.
If Digg is to appeal to a wider audience, the site needs to find a way to focus on mainstream views and topics, or else become a virtual "back street" unwelcome to a mainstream audience.
Some of the content on Diggnation is squarely sexist too - Alex in particular making comments about other women whilst proudly advertising his engagement to Heather. Somehow passing comment on women he would like to bang, Alex seems to miss the point of being committed to someone else.
Lisa Smolen-Jenkins, who is a frequent commentator on my blog, made another smart point:
People get very brave online, slinging insults that they probably wouldn't say to someone's face. It makes me wonder if their wives, sisters, mothers, girlfriends, et al, knew they were saying these things what would happen?.
And within the Digg comment thread itself, a rare moment of clarity from ebjerstedt:
When you publicly post a sexist comment on Digg, anyone can read it, and lots of people do. Plenty of 13 year-old boys who haven't formed their opinions on feminism or sexism read Digg. When they see a sexist comment, they don't get that it's sarcastic (the dumb ones), and they see your comment as condoning sexism.
In that sense, any sexist comment posted on Digg, sarcastic or not, implicitly condones sexism because some people will take it to condone sexism. Do what you want, but this is true. No amount of self-important Digg user posturing can change this.
Think about what you say before you beg for your all-important lulz, troll
In my opinion - the anonymity of the internet may be to blame for some of the sexist remarks. However, that is no excuse for them.
Content Is Still King - But Offensive Comments Are Unnecessary and Harmful
Generally speaking, I do accept the idea that certain content shouldn't make the front page of Digg if it doesn't interest the audience. However, I will never agree with the offensive comments that seem follow in response that content. It is one thing to engage in the "democratic" nature of the site by voting content up or down, however, the female-bashing and juvenile comments are completely unnecessary.
Help Other Social News Sites Succeed
A few individuals such as May Evans said that I might want to consider using other social news sites instead of Digg such as Mixx.com, Reddit or Stumble Upon:
I haven't used Digg for reasons like this ever since I found Mixx.com which is much more female, feminist and lgbt friendly. I recommend it.
While I think it is important to cultivate a presence on these sites as well as Digg - walking away from the site won't solve the problems at hand. Digg still serves as a gatekeeper for many ideas to be recognized within the blogosphere. It's not just about traffic. It's about the agenda setting that goes along with the site. In order to make an impact with issue advocacy - such as women's rights - content needs to seen and heard by the larger blogger community and Digg certainly helps make this happen. Confronting the community and trying to make it better is the right thing to do, in addition to working to create greater influence on other sites as well.
***
In conclusion - I hope that my challenge to the Digg community can be embraced, rather than buried. I hope that the site can keep working toward a more favorable environment for all users - male or female.
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Comments (7)
Comments on Change.org are meant for further exploration and evaluation of the ideas covered in the posts. To that end, we welcome constructive comments. However, we reserve the right to delete comments that are offensive, abusive, or off-topic; that contain ad hominem attacks; or that are designed to subvert or hijack comment threads rather than contribute to them. Repeat offenders may be permanently removed from the site at our discretion.
Author
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Jen Nedeau is a social media consultant, progressive activist, feminist speaker and writer. She currently lives in New York City, where she works full-time as the Director of Digital Strategy at Air America Media. In August 2008, Nedeau was selected to be the Editor of the WomensRights.Change.Org where she facilitates daily discussion about the feminist movement. Additionally, Nedeau volunteers as the Chief Technology Officer for New Leaders Council, a non-profit that offers exclusive training for young leaders. You can follow her on Twitter @HumanFolly or learn more here: www.jennedeau.com.
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Really fabulous job Jen. I think what has to happen is that interactions like these need to happen on a daily basis. Exhausting, but probably the only real way to acceptance of the behavior within Digg.
Posted by Tracy Viselli on 12/23/2008 @ 11:03PM PT
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Congratulations Jen !
Listen, as a gay father clergyman with a 32 year relationship and a 5 year marriage, and a six year old toddler, my thoughts go to Rick Warren....the enemy of both WOMEN'S RIGHTS AND GAY RIGHTS.
The " Great Invocator" has coupled with the "Great Triangulator" to replace the "Great Divider."
Listen, do you remember the perjorative term ' FEMI - NAZI" - well listen to the code"
WARREN SAYS WOMEN SHOULD BE SILENT NOT SPEAK
WARREN SAYS WOMEN ARE SUBORDINATE TO MEN
WARREN SAYS THAT ABORTION IS THE SAME AS THE NAZI HOLOCAUST PERPS.....GET IT....."FEMI.............NAZI"
Jen, it is NOT only the LESBIAN AND GAYS who feel BETRAYED by OBAMA.
ARE YOU NOT ALL OUTRAGED....OR DO YOU IT IS ONLY THE GAYS IF YOU ARE STRAIGHT?
Posted by A B on 12/24/2008 @ 08:20AM PT
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Jen, thank you for posting your consciousness-raising post on Digg in the first place and also following up. As I sorted through the comments I was surprised at the rise in negativity (why are people so defensive?) but then I also began to appreciate the dialogue that you created. Whether it was negative, positive, favorable to your post or not I think that in the end I agree you did the right thing by "confronting the community and trying to make it better." I will stay posted and thank you for "staring sexism straight in the face."
Posted by Grace Boyle on 12/24/2008 @ 10:45AM PT
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I like Reddit better than Digg for a number of reasons, but a lack of sexism and juvenile behaviour in general is not one of them. There's plenty of that going on there, too; maybe simply a function of the main user group seemingly being young guys of 15-25.
Though again, Reddit is a much better alternative to Digg for a range of other reasons.
Stumbleupon does seem to cater for, and invite, more grown-up usage and interaction. Which is much appreciated. But then the whole underlying idea is a different one, it serves a different purpose.
I'd never heard of Mixx.com until I saw the responses in your other post. It seems a much smaller site, comparatively, a start-up of sorts I presume. Going also on the somewhat cookie-cutter fashion of the posts praising Mixx, I'm guessing they are better seen as inventive marketing than as substantive responses to your post.
I'm still looking for a social news/resources sharing site that does the same as Digg and Reddit but is geared to a more specific audience, to wonks, academics and NGO people and basically, well, grown-ups. If there is one out there, I'd love to know.
Posted by Joost van Beek on 12/24/2008 @ 01:23PM PT
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I like Reddit better than Digg for a number of reasons, but a lack of sexism and juvenile behaviour in general is not one of them. There's plenty of that going on there, too; maybe simply a function of the main user group seemingly being young guys of 15-25.
Though again, Reddit is a much better alternative to Digg for a range of other reasons.
Stumbleupon does seem to cater for, and invite, more grown-up usage and interaction. Which is much appreciated. But then the whole underlying idea is a different one, it serves a different purpose.
I'd never heard of Mixx.com until I saw the responses in your other post. It seems a much smaller site, comparatively, a start-up of sorts I presume. Going also on the somewhat cookie-cutter fashion of the posts praising Mixx, I'm guessing they are better seen as inventive marketing than as substantive responses to your post.
I'm still looking for a social news/resources sharing site that does the same as Digg and Reddit but is geared to a more specific audience, to wonks, academics and NGO people and basically, well, grown-ups. If there is one out there, I'd love to know.
Posted by Joost van Beek on 12/24/2008 @ 01:24PM PT
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In my experience on the internet I haven't found that making people use their real name makes a bit of difference in mob mentality insults, at least at some sites where a club mentality popularity contest is in vogue. Perhaps at a site like Digg it would indeed help. People trash others at Youtube using extremely foul language, partly due to the anonymity factor, I have seen.
But as for your concern about sexism on the web, I have to say that the Obama campaign, whose site you post this on, wasn't particularly a feminist campaign, or one with an emphasis on empowering women. When the campaign's Youtube site started displaying videos of "behind the scenes" video commentaries from the campaign to give the campaign a face, they always showed a couple of harried young white guys who seemed to view themselves as heroes, never a woman (yet I know that out in the field, it was in many cases women who were the main foot soldiers getting out the vote from what I personally witnessed in at the local campaign office). I guess the emphasis was on youth but they forgot that some of us were also looking at them for representativeness. I think they eventually worked on improving that in the administrative selections later though in some ways no with much more diverse choices than the Bush administration's picks, embarrasingly.
Obama also made sure in the weeks just after the primary to cosy up to the religious right about abortion, making sure they knew he's up for disallowing late term abortion, regardless of whether the current ban on those has led to a lot of hardship for women who truly did need them for reasons such as severe fetal malformation (not referring here to mild retardation as in Palin's baby, but seriously traumatic fetal conditions discovered late term requiring decisions by a woman and her doctor that the government has no business interfering in).
I don't think the Obama-Biden team's strong suit is feminism. But your presence on the website blogging can't hurt and might help.
Posted by P. Hanrahan on 12/27/2008 @ 12:28PM PT
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As a digger pointed out in YOUR article:'Is Digg Sexist? That is the question I've been asking myself ever since I started blogging about Women's Rights.'-Really? That's what you've been wondering? You're doing it wrong!"
You should be focusing on real issues, not the internets.
I wasn't going to respond, but your girl friends keep sending me emails about why I am a problem and not you. The difference between you and me is that I am a strong female who is successful in a man's industry while you want everything pink and frou frou, so here it goes:
1. The main reason I rebutted your article was because you call yourself a journalist. A journalist would have written and asked female diggers for their opinions, which you did not. You based it on a comment you read. My writings have been quoted in the LA Times, but that doesn't mean I'm a journalist and neither are you. You are not even close to what real journalism is. You are a blogger with an opinion. Nothing wrong with that, but don't represent me as a female. I'm too smart to be part of your little movement whining about digg.
2. As a journalist, I am shocked and appalled that you are advocating censorship. I am a firm believer in our Constitution, and that includes freedom of speech. You literally went and complained to Kevin Rose and got a few people banned. Way to go, Feminist! (For the record, you should watch Diggnation. Kevin Rose is probably more sexist than you'd like to think. His thoughts on female body builders and how it's not their place is hilarious. Irony!)
3. For the first time, I can voice my opinion on digg without warning people "Hey look! I'm a girl! Give me special attention and digg me!" I understand the sarcasm. And how many times have women blamed men for their problems? There's a lot of male bashing that goes on. You choose to focus on a comment on digg.
4. You were offended at the comments, but guys bag on each other the most. First of all, all diggers are virgins who live in their parent's basement and play video games. If you ever see an article on sex, someone will reply "What is this thing called 'sex'?"
5. Have you ever seen what articles DO make it to the front page: LOLcats, Rick Astley, and bacon and anything with the word digg in it. Front page automatically, although we've been getting quite of few of Yahoo! Answers submitted.
6. "Make me a sammich" has become a digg meme. It's not sexist. Other digg memes are "Over 9000!" "never going to give you up" (and the entire Astley song in the thread) "all your base are belong to us" and "how is babby formed." Those comments are not sexist, they originated from an article that was submitted, and thus, people repeat them often. That was why when I read "make me a sammich" I laugh because I remember the article it belonged to.
7. 99% of the fun are the comments, not the articles. Comments take on a life of their own. If you love Apple products, you will get dugg down by anyone who uses Microsoft and vise versa. If you are atheist, you will get dugg down by our Christian digger. The difference between them and you is that they refute the comments in the *surprise* comment section. That's the fun part. You should have been there during the elections, all hell broke lose. But the opinions and comments are part of digg.
In the end, you wanted to wasted your time on digg fighting a battle that was pointless. Is that the kind of leader you want to be? A whiner? God help us all if you are to represent women all over.
Does sexism exist? Definitely, but not on digg.
Posted by elidet reyes on 12/28/2008 @ 10:58PM PT
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