Children's Books: F*cking With Gender Roles Since 1970
Published April 23, 2009 @ 01:50PM PT
My co-worker tipped me off to this gem, "I'm Glad I'm a Boy! I'm Glad I'm a Girl" - a children's book from 1970, which sets up some pretty horrific standards for what girls and boys are supposed to do in their lives. If you saw the "Blast from the Patriarchy's Past" earlier this week, you'll appreciate this little treasure even more.
Thanks to Emily for sharing the images of this out-of-print children's book from her local library. Here are some of my "favorites" - meaning the most absurd imagery to share with children!
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Comments (114)
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Author
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Jen Nedeau is a social media consultant, progressive activist, feminist speaker and writer. She currently lives in New York City, where she works full-time as the Director of Digital Strategy at Air America Media. In August 2008, Nedeau was selected to be the Editor of the WomensRights.Change.Org where she facilitates daily discussion about the feminist movement. Additionally, Nedeau volunteers as the Chief Technology Officer for New Leaders Council, a non-profit that offers exclusive training for young leaders. You can follow her on Twitter @HumanFolly or learn more here: www.jennedeau.com.
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Wait what's the problem with this again? This seems to me to be pretty roughly where things are at? Also, not enough "w"'s "t"s or "f"s in the English language for this.
Posted by Nathaniel Whittemore on 04/23/2009 @ 01:55PM PT
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"Girls need things fixed."
Posted by mike @change.org on 04/23/2009 @ 02:22PM PT
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Wow... I think I'm actually at a loss for words...
Posted by Rachel Walters on 04/23/2009 @ 01:57PM PT
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ummm.... this is a hoax, right?
Posted by Amanda Kloer on 04/23/2009 @ 02:03PM PT
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It's certainly not a hoax. Satire or not, perhaps it's our reaction (outrage, right?) and society's reaction to this sort of stuff that's most important.
Posted by mike @change.org on 04/23/2009 @ 02:21PM PT
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yeah, I know. It just floors me that this was printed so recently!
Posted by Amanda Kloer on 04/27/2009 @ 12:17PM PT
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There are lots of horrifying children's books out there. We recently bought one too. It's called "On Your Potty." It is a very short story, in simple words and few per page like this book. It tells of a young bear who wakes up, doesn't want to get on the potty as per a father's command, and then in huge block capital letters across the next page, they indicate the father screaming, "ON YOUR POTTY!" The bear complies, goes, and gets praise.
How is it a "good" children's book if it teaches responding to points of conflict with very small children lacking the cognitive capabilities needed for personal accountability, with loud demonstrative behavior? Should the father bear have hit the baby next if he still refused? According to statistics in the annual U.S. report 'Child Maltreatment,' which tells us that 44 percent of the kids killed by child abuse every year are under 1 year of age and 78 percent of those killed are under 3, it's reasonable to think that in the United States that father bear very well might have.
Horrific. This isn't a book we'll give to anyone or donate either. It's gone straight in the trash, as would the one displayed here too.
(Needless to say, please don't buy it, you guys!) :P
Posted by Christine Clarke on 05/10/2009 @ 07:09PM PT
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The sad part is...Just how much of that crap is still being shoved down childrens throats by way of media...I'd say most if not all of it in one form or another.
And we wonder why we have problems...
Posted by Thomas McHugh on 07/16/2009 @ 03:16PM PT
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Awww miss clarke...What if I run out of toilet paper and cant make it to the store... :(
Posted by Thomas McHugh on 07/16/2009 @ 03:18PM PT
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I'm Glad I'm a Grrrrl in 2009! (And my Mommy & Daddy wouldn't have read this book to me). The times ARE a-changing. This book's time is obviously past. Glad to know it's out of print.
Posted by DC Grrl on 04/23/2009 @ 02:27PM PT
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There's a difference between choosing your roles in life as opposed to having them drilled into you. I work in a male-dominated field because no one told me I couldn't.
But, I would never read this book to my son (even if it were still in print) because gender stereotypes are wrong to push on girls AND boys.
Posted by Lisa Smolen on 04/23/2009 @ 10:12PM PT
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What if he starts playing with dolls? or become a cheerleader? or a nurse or a stewardess? or better yet, wear dresses?
Not that there is anything wrong with any except maybe for the last one, its just that he would get abused for not fitting in...
It isn't always as easy as let them choose themselves... not that this book is in any way useful just that some form of guidance is needed...
Posted by zaetz zaetz on 04/24/2009 @ 07:39PM PT
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That is why we're striving for a world where gender roles are inter-mixed. So no one gets made fun of.
When I have children I'll probably buy them both "girl" and "boy" toys, if not neutral ones.
Posted by Juan Portillo on 06/19/2009 @ 09:05AM PT
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Who cares if your boy wears dresses if he is happy?
It is no different for you to teach your boy to act like a boy is supposed to than it is for say a white father to teach his white children to act like they should according to their race.
Most kids are going to be made fun of for something anyway. Gender-varient behavior is one of the things that tend to attract the most negative actions especially by peers, but isn't it a better lesson to teach your children that other people's opinions should not dictate their personal choices in life. <-that statement isn't even something I am totally comfortable. One may chose to act gender varient, but their feelings are not a choice.
No form of guidance is needed when it comes to either challenging or fitting with Gender expectations.
Posted by Bailey Van Deest on 06/24/2009 @ 02:37PM PT
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Indeed...miss smolen-jenkons.
I couldnt agree with you more.
Posted by Thomas McHugh on 07/16/2009 @ 03:21PM PT
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Mr. zaetz.
I think that if we allow children to be who they are and want to be without trying to enforce extremes of gender related roles on either boys or girls then in the long run...Things will be much better than if we continue to focus on any aspect of "me tarzan, you jane" roles.
Posted by Thomas McHugh on 07/16/2009 @ 03:25PM PT
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"I think someone is uncomfortable with their gender."
Explain to me how gender determines that boys should be doctors but girls should only be nurses. That is not about gender, that is about maintaining a power and money differential. I like female nurses too, but this book was intended to TEACH little girls that they need to stay OUT of high paying, important jobs.
Notice the book said nothing about which gender has the babies.
It has nothing to do with opening doors for women. It has everything to do with the fact that defending the message of this children's book is not "chivalry," it is discrimination. If you're threatened by women wanting to "fix things" or become doctors, or President of the U.S., I'd suggest it's not one of us who needs the professional help.
Posted by Arcadia B on 04/23/2009 @ 10:34PM PT
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Well said miss B and I totaly concur.
Posted by Thomas McHugh on 07/16/2009 @ 03:29PM PT
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This is such a great resource for teaching critical thinking and literacy skills. Imagine assigning students to produce parodies of this, updates, on and on.
A great share. Thanks.
Posted by Clay Burell on 04/24/2009 @ 04:43AM PT
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Although a horrible book, you're right, it would make a great lesson, leading to discussion about other unspoken "rules" or stereotypes for different groups (not just gender roles, but racial stereotypes, SES, etc.), and what updated/modern stereotypes/assumptions we have. I bet it would open lots of students' eyes and help them think about what they're thinking about others.
Posted by Criss Cox on 04/24/2009 @ 08:18AM PT
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Children's literature may be evolving, but the messages we give children today are NOT very different from the images inspiring this thread. Some better role models, but little girls still get the message if they don't like pink or 'dress up' or any of that crap. Watch commercials. Boys do, girls are in there (now), but reading or admiring. Girls help Mom with the dishes and cooking. Boys help Dad wash the car or fix something. Long way to go, Baby...............
Posted by ophelia omai on 05/03/2009 @ 07:50PM PT
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I'm so glad I went to a liberal school (Pre-K - 12th) where gender roles were dismanteled, evolution was taught as "law", and we were told gay marriage was totally fine.
Posted by Juan Portillo on 06/19/2009 @ 09:07AM PT
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really Juan, REALLY?!?!
you are acting like you live in a vacuum
trust me, you have some problems too
and going to a "liberal" school
doesn't just "magically" make you perfect :/
Posted by Alex Ancira on 07/12/2009 @ 10:31AM PT
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huh? Sorry I didn't get it. What do you mean I live in a vacuum?
I'm sure I have problems. I'm sure I let my own personal experiences get in the way when I comment on this blog. I try to listen and reshape my way of thinking every time someone responds to my comments.
So... please help me understand your comment. I don't know why you'd think I think I'm perfect.
Posted by Juan Portillo on 07/12/2009 @ 10:52AM PT
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by the way, I didn't go to school in the USA, so I'm sure I'm bringing many outside points of view to the table.
Posted by Juan Portillo on 07/12/2009 @ 11:03AM PT
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Yeah, this is a great example of how society can be racist at such a young age.
Although I don't think many children read books like these anymore, nor can I imagine anyone still writing books like this anymore. We grow up in a country where we are taught we can be anything we want to be. However, women, along with african americans or latinos, probably will always have a harder time accomplishing that because this is still a pretty discrimininative country. It's improving gradually though, can't deny that.
Posted by Dina Yazdani on 04/24/2009 @ 06:02AM PT
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I LOVE the one where girls use the stuff boys invent. What a horrendous book!
Posted by Leigh Graham on 04/24/2009 @ 06:20AM PT
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Yep...I gotta wonder if the author of that piece of shit wasnt trying to make girls think its ok to be users and gold diggers ?
No offense to the ladies here intended.
Posted by Thomas McHugh on 07/16/2009 @ 03:34PM PT
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What about "Boys can eat, girls can cook"?
A) Ladies, get in the kitchen! (No, you can't have shoes! And why aren't you pregnant yet, you wench?) Girls, learn your lesson early on: your purpose is to serve men. They want to eat, it is your job to cook for them.
B) NO, YOU CAN'T EAT! You will gain weight! And be FAT! And what man is going to want you to cook for him if you're so FAT???
Posted by Criss Cox on 04/24/2009 @ 07:08AM PT
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i never heard of this book be for but i like it i
would by it for my grandchildren. I see we need
to look for good books online to open our mind.
Posted by belinda haggins on 05/03/2009 @ 08:48AM PT
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My ideal book would read: "Both girls and boys should know how to cook. Both girls and boys should have a healthy appetite. Both girls and boys should learn the same skills to survive in this world".
Lets take the best qualities of boys and girls and turn them into a human standard.
Posted by Juan Portillo on 06/19/2009 @ 09:09AM PT
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rofl, Criss... the First Ladies one is interesting... when I was a kid, my parents always joked about how I was going to be President one day. They weren't thinking of my gender, that's for sure.
Posted by Luella - on 04/24/2009 @ 07:30AM PT
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Well, I agree with last panel. Girls DO need things fixed - the patriarchy, the wage gap, etc.
Posted by Anne G on 04/24/2009 @ 07:59AM PT
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i'm getting this entire book tatooed across my back so i never forget my role in society.
Posted by Janessa Goldbeck on 04/24/2009 @ 10:04AM PT
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This book doesn't put boys in the powerful position and look down at women, you just see the position that men are inclined toward as being powerful.
Men fixing things and women needing them fixed DEFINITELY puts the man in the power position, but women cooking and men eating switches the power position. For some reason, people see the woman as being subserviant to the man's needs by making him food, but don't see the man fixing things as being subserviant to the woman's needs.
Why?
Nobody is putting good/bad labels on these activites except the person reading the book.
Fixing things are powerful because men LOVE fixing things and we feel great when we do it and we can roll around in grease and pound our chests because we used Superglue. Okay, maybe we didn't use grease and Superglue at the same time.
Whatever you do; relish in it. If you knit, then get some funky yarn and and make a cool afghan for your Dad and strut around proud that you provided warmth for your loved-ones and it'll be powerful. Just don't pound your chests... that's for boys.
Posted by Michael Roberts on 04/24/2009 @ 01:11PM PT
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Look at the choices made by the author:
"Boys can eat. Girls can cook."
"Boys fix things. Girls need things fixed."
Notice how girls NEED things fixed, and girls use what boys make; but the author very carefully lists a girl's cooking as a thing that she does, not something the boy NEEDS.
The point we are making is why is it that only boys can fix things? Girls fix things too, all the time. And if a boy does not like to fix things, there is nothing wrong with him.
This is a children's book. Children are very easily influenced, because they are children. Their brains are SPONGES, and the sooner people and parents realize this the sooner we can start fixing society. If you read a book like this to a child, that child is going to internalize these "rules," whether consciously or subconsciously. This is what's making us mad.
I relish in what I do. I relish in being the one who is asked to figure out why the scanner is not scanning because I FIX THINGS. I relish in building my Ikea furniture, ALL BY MYSELF LIKE A BIG GIRL. I relish in the hats and scarves and afghans I crochet for my family and any other unfortunate innocent bystanders. And I want other children, male and female, to have that same option, which is why I object to books like this, that tell you it's only okay to relish in these things over here, those things over there are not okay for someone like you.
Posted by Criss Cox on 04/24/2009 @ 10:20PM PT
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I think the point also being missed by Michael is that all of the activities in this book that are so-called "girl" activities are in response to the so-call "boy" activities. Because as a society, we as women are expected to respond and react to men.
It's not that women get to have power because we cook for men. It's that we have to respond to the man's need of hunger by providing him with food.
Even if you ignore the ridiculous content of this book - look at the context. Boy's come first, then define the role that the girls take.
Posted by Carrie Pettit on 04/27/2009 @ 01:14PM PT
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Mr. roberts...In your example of knitting...Was that meant to be just for the women or were you including men as well ?
I ask because this man, meaning me, doesnt have a problem with taking up a needle and thread.
And the part about "pounding your chest"...Ok, I admit that Ive done that afew times in my younger days but I wouldnt normally think of that as a sign of manhood...
Posted by Thomas McHugh on 07/16/2009 @ 03:41PM PT
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I really enjoyed this animated cartoon. This is how I viewed the world when I was a little girl.
Posted by Tynisha Felton on 04/24/2009 @ 01:59PM PT
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Ok so it's late and I'm not about to read everyones comments on this.
But here's the thing, I think this book is fantastic and sweet, but its seems, at first glance that guys like this book, women don't.
This is sad, I've just come back from a bar/club and it's quite clear that women have all the power/self confidence to me at least... I get so much agro for being 'a little camp', and i feel that women expect guys to be the stereotypical guy! It seems to me that women wish to be able to do everything but guys should stick to what they are good at...?... sorry? is this equal opportunities?... I'm an architect and it's a very male orientated business, maybe I'm biased, I'd love to see more female Architects tho!... but women and men, in general! are better at different things... in the case of the doctor.. men are (in general and in my experience) better at being less emotional and making the hard decisions objectively(but I'm quite prepared to admit i couldn't!) and women (in general!) are more caring hence stereotypically nurses! girls are cheerleaders? they inspire boys! can't imagine a group of camp boys would do the same to bunch of female football players... ok so I'm not trying to stick up for this book... ok so i am... but for this reason...ok two... one women and men are generally more suited to different roles, I'm not saying that we shouldn't be open to women doing (traditionally) male roles and men doing female roles... but this is true and it has to be accepted... equal opportunities should not mean equal numbers of both sexes in every job, it should mean, if you can do it you should be able too.. this seems to be lost on some people and equal opportunities seems to have gone too far!
second and THE MOST IMPORTANTLY, this book above all else says, boys and girls, men and women compliment each other/ need each other! that seems a sweet thing to me!... and i don't care if your gay, i bet you have a best/close friend of the opposite sex you couldn't live without!
girls are great,
boys are great,
we don't all have to be the stereotype,but girls and boys are different, and thats what makes are world go round, embrace it!
Posted by P L on 04/24/2009 @ 08:22PM PT
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Pete,
I agree that GENERALLY boys have this set of qualities and girls have this set of qualities. After all, the stereotypes came from somewhere, they were not invented out of thin air.
The problem is when we force people to follow those stereotypes, because NOT EVERYBODY fits into those nice little square boxes.
The objection to this book is that is presents these roles as rules: boys are like this, girls are like that. This limits a child's view, and therefore limits a child's options.
Remember Nurse Flowers on Scrubs? The big joke was he's a GUY, but he's JUST A NURSE. Why can't he get a real job, like a man, and be a doctor? Why does he want a girlie job? Or Owen Wilson's character in Meet the Parents (or another Ben Stiller movie... can't remember exactly) -- another male nurse, made fun of for being a man and being a nurse, instead of a doctor. His character has a great monologue about why he chose to be a nurse instead of a doctor. The reason he needs to have a big soapbox speech is because of the mentality presented in this book, and propagated by this book and others like it.
Why can't we leave it at PEOPLE are good at different things? Why must we attach gender to skills, abilities, and personality traits?
How would this discussion go if the book read:
"White people are businessmen."
"Black people are basketball players."
"Asians are mathematicians."
"Hispanics are gardeners and housekeepers."
Would we see a problem with that book?
Posted by Criss Cox on 04/24/2009 @ 10:33PM PT
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Listen buddy:
I know that many men feel that women now control everything... this is a commen perception in men that are estranged from women. (Like in a male-dominated field, few female friends, etc.) I'm a very female person, in a male dominated field. It is very important to foster friendships with BOTH genders with people that you view as your equals. This will help you see that the playing field is actually level, when all components of a situation are factored in. Also, when women in your potential dating/mating pool see that you view women as your equal, they will be attracted to this and I think you will have a lot more luck. We can discuss this further - if you are interested.
Posted by Melinda Toumi on 09/01/2009 @ 11:24AM PT
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I completely agree and can attest to that, Melinda!
Posted by Juan Portillo on 09/01/2009 @ 01:58PM PT
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This book was published almost 10 years before I was born, but it seems that we've come a long way since 1970. Two of the best doctors I know are women and the best nurse I know is a man. I know plenty of guys who can cook and my girlfriend is much better at fixing things than I am. However, I have to admit that I think guys make better football players and ladies make better cheerleaders :-)
Posted by Dennis G. on 04/24/2009 @ 11:25PM PT
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First, "Jeff", let me introduce you to a little concept called Godwin's Law. It says, basically, that anyone desperate or foolish enough to compare their opponents to Nazis in a debate instantly loses all credibility, and thus the argument. You crossed that particular Rubicon already, and there's little you could do to redeem yourself at this point.
But that wasn't enough for you. Among other ramblings, you made the wildly bizarre assertation that feminists are genocidal killers, which is beyond paranoid and well into the truly outlandish. Do you have any idea how much you sound like a raving lunatic? "RUN, the womyn are coming, fire, death, aieeeeeeeeee!". I'm hard-pressed to determine whether it's more amusing or more pathetic.
Either way, you have quite the blind audacity to say men are better leaders because they think with logic and reason instead of feelings, when you're clearly thinking with blind, deluded fear and not much else.
Posted by Kitty Tanaka on 04/25/2009 @ 11:44AM PT
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Hmmmmm
Posted by jeffery pressler on 04/26/2009 @ 12:11AM PT
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I notice everytime i post a post it gets removed,i guess the author doent like for the truth about her cause to be known
Posted by jeffery pressler on 04/26/2009 @ 09:52PM PT
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I didn't read your post before it was removed, but if you were referring to other people as Nazis, it sounds like you were going more for being inflammatory rather than speaking the truth.
Men are better leaders???? Do you honestly truly believe this? The best boss I ever had in my life was a woman. Not because she was a woman but because she was a good boss.
Posted by Romy Carver on 04/27/2009 @ 04:58PM PT
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The irony miss tonaka is that if more of us men really did think logicly then we wouldnt be so afraid, collectivly speaking, of women having power simply because it then takes pressure off of us men...Logicly speaking.
Posted by Thomas McHugh on 07/16/2009 @ 03:53PM PT
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I have noticed that cleaning supply/equipment ads are still targeting women overwhelmingly. Then again Men do tend to be slobs. Lets face it guys, if it were not for women We would still be living in caves.
Posted by Charlie Reed on 04/27/2009 @ 05:14AM PT
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Dude i counld not agree with you more!!I love the fact that woman contribute so much to society,as i have always said if it wasnt for woman mens world would be nothing more the having a shelter!!!woman make a house a home!!!they keep us men civilized!!!If it were'nt for the feminists trying to stir stuff up men and woman would get along just fine!!!
Posted by jeffery pressler on 04/27/2009 @ 06:43AM PT
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Or you could get off your butt and pick up after yourself. Why do you need a woman in order to be civilized? What does this say about you?
I don't believe men would still be living in caves without women, indeed they wouldn't exist at all, due to no procreation.
A feminist is simply a woman who is striving for equality and respect. Why would anyone have a problem with that?
Posted by Romy Carver on 04/27/2009 @ 05:01PM PT
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Yeah and notice that it's always a little girl watching or helping...........
If that Jeff retard likes your post- worry.
Posted by ophelia omai on 06/15/2009 @ 12:44PM PT
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Men don't "need" women and women don't "need" men. We should all have all the skills we need to survive in this world. Men should know how to cook, just like women should know how to fix a car.
People need other people, now that's a different story. We all compliment each other with our different strengths, interests, etc. So I may be able to help a girl out by helping take care of her children, and she might return the favour by fixing my computer.
We shouldn't separate our skills and strengths based on whether we're men or women.
Posted by Juan Portillo on 06/19/2009 @ 09:17AM PT
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Well, mr. reed, I admit that Im not the cleanest man in the world BUT I do like the cleaning ads myself only because I can then find something to keep the health department off my tush. :)
Posted by Thomas McHugh on 07/16/2009 @ 03:58PM PT
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It needs a little up-dating but still, what's the problem, if you a girl wants to be a boy, that's the problem. If you a boy wants to be a girl, that's the problem, your's not mine, leave the book alone.
Posted by Wayne Drummond on 04/27/2009 @ 07:39AM PT
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Mr. drummond...How does my being able to cook as a man make me like a girl ?
How does the fact that I can sew a button on a pair of pants make me anything like a girl ?
How would a lady being able to fix computers or cars or save lives with damn good surgical skills make her any less a woman ?
Your illogic boggles my mind...
Posted by Thomas McHugh on 07/16/2009 @ 04:06PM PT
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Wayne,
I think it's a bigger problem to put people into boxes and thinking in terms of just "boy" and "girl". Why not think in terms of "good human being"?
That way, both males and females can learn skills that they need to survive, without thinking "oh that's a boy thing" or "oh that's a girl thing".
Posted by Juan Portillo on 07/16/2009 @ 04:14PM PT
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Just for the record, Yes I think women civilize men. I do not think however it is a womans' job to do all the cleaning. I do think She should be considered fairly for every job. I do think They should be paid the same for the same job. That said, most men do every thing We do to attract, please, satisfy, comfort, protect, or shut up a woman and/or the chubby little things they give birth to.
Posted by Charlie Reed on 04/27/2009 @ 07:56AM PT
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HA! I don't think I need a woman to civilize me, I'm sorry.
We live in a society where we let bad behaviour run rampant. When we treat girls like little princesses and encourage them to be less of a person, then they become spoiled, they are discriminated against, etc. and then you see all the "bad behaviour" you usually associate with annoying girls.
Similarly, our society encourages men to be slobs, aggressive, insensitive, etc. "Boys will be boys", what a load of bull crap.
Guys can be decent human beings, and girls can be the same.
Also, no one wants a girl to act "like a man" because that usually entails that they will adopt all the negative traits of men, and vice versa.
Posted by Juan Portillo on 06/19/2009 @ 09:21AM PT
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Haha, lol I actually *am* one of those girls who need things fixed...just this week the handle on my frying pan came loose and I had to go down the hall to one of the suites full of boys and ask them to tighten the screw for me and play the damsel in distress. Haha. Oh, and I *CAN* cook. But I can eat too! ;) I guess some of these stereotypes got me pretty early. They weren't from my dad, though. Dad wanted to get me into all that guy-stuff. I mean, I was his first kid and I happened to be a girl, but he still wanted to do guy-stuff with me. I was only interested in some of it. We *did* launch a rocket together, and I now have a life-long love of camping. =)
I was told very early on, in elementary school that girls "tend to" be better and reading/spelling/language and boys "tend to" be better at science and math. And later on in high school I met girls who were absolute whizzes at math and science and anecdotally disproved that maxim in my mind...but I kind of wonder if I would've gotten more interested in science and math if I'd never been told that, or if I would've had better confidence in my ability to do them and if it would've boosted my performance. When I have kids (if I have kids), I will make sure not to teach them anything like that! I will make it absolutely clear to them that the presence or absence of body parts cannot and should not stop them from following their dreams...
Thanks for sharing this. It was creepy.
Posted by Michelle Bak on 04/27/2009 @ 01:29PM PT
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Teach kids the basics -- (1) art/music, (2) math/science, and (3) physical fitness...leave everything else to the parents...end of discussion...we need LESS government intervention -- NOT more...parents need to raise their kids not the government/school system.
Posted by Richard Forrest on 04/27/2009 @ 01:30PM PT
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NOTE: (1) This book is out of print.
(2) It is NOT 1970 - stop living in the past and move on.
Posted by Richard Forrest on 04/27/2009 @ 01:54PM PT
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The point of this isn't that we are living in the past. It's to compare and contrast where we are now versus where we were almost forty years ago. We've come a long way, but there is still rampant gender stereotyping going on. We start teaching kids gender roles early on, even with such things as "girls' toys" and "boys' toys" in pink and blue packages at fast-food joints.
Posted by Tab Worth on 05/04/2009 @ 11:05AM PT
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The problem mr. forrest is that there are still elements of that past still in place today being used by this generation's male chauvinists to limit both men and women.
Thats why it still has to be dealt with even though the book itself is long gone.
Posted by Thomas McHugh on 07/16/2009 @ 04:15PM PT
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I think it says a lot for all of us in this day and age that we can get a kick out of this book and see it for what it is... outdated and ridiculous!
I grew up in the 70's but I was fortunate that my family didn't buy into this garbage. My granddaughter is two and she loves to play with trucks. Doesn't really care much for dolls. Maybe she'll be a racecar driver, or a mechanic, or best of all, whatever the hell she wants.
I always tried to teach my sons to cook and take care of themselves, because I didn't want them to feel like they *had* to "find" a woman to do that for them. How childish are these men who are so stuck in gender roles that they can't figure out that they aren't helping themselves a bit! We're all good at different things, and it doesn't make any difference if you have a penis or not.
Thank you Jen, for posting this blast from the past article. It was entertaining and validating of the progress we have made in the past 30 years. Hope you aren't trying to instigate (or "instagate" as Jeffery calls it) and get all us crazy women-folk all riled up! That would be immature! (or "inmuture...) hehehe....
Posted by Romy Carver on 04/27/2009 @ 05:11PM PT
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Interesting look at what life was just a generation ago, makes me appreciate what I take for granted. I am thankful for all the strong women who worked hard to change this gender stereotyping.
However, I do not appreciate the foul language in the title, it belittles the whole article. Powerful phrases that are profanity free make much stronger statements.
Posted by Carolyn Turner on 04/27/2009 @ 05:18PM PT
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Note taken on the foul language - thanx for the feedback.
Posted by Jen Nedeau on 04/28/2009 @ 05:00AM PT
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You know what I don't appreciate, Carolyn? Censorship in any form.
Posted by Tab Worth on 05/04/2009 @ 11:07AM PT
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Whoa, crazy book. I'm glad I'm in the time where women and men can be what ever they want with out the stereotypical crap being thrown at them. "that's too manly to be done by a girl" "that's to girly for a man to do"
Everyone has a talent for certain things, it shouldn't be up to gender to lead them to a certain role to play in society. Blah to it allll.
Posted by Janeth Herrera on 04/27/2009 @ 06:29PM PT
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I don't think the battle is won yet.
Posted by Juan Portillo on 06/19/2009 @ 09:25AM PT
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No but it will be mr. portillo...It will be.
Posted by Thomas McHugh on 07/16/2009 @ 04:22PM PT
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Romy, I am not asking a woman to pick up after Me. In fact as a single father I have spent much of My life picking up after a little girl. Now that She is 27 and still living here along with Her mate and three kids, She does much housework. She hates dishes and laundry though, so I do 95% of those. My statements were more about the general human condition. Women inspire Men to evolve. Thank you women of the world!
Posted by Charlie Reed on 04/28/2009 @ 04:18AM PT
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Sorry about my angry comment earlier, it was actually directed more at Jeffrey, who was whining about us damn feminists ruining everything! Many men are feminists, it just means showing respect and equality. Sounds like she is lucky to have you for a dad!
Posted by Romy Carver on 05/01/2009 @ 10:39AM PT
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You said SINCE 1970 right?
Well where is your modern day refrence that backs up that statement?
Also something written in 1970 has nothing to do with the way things are now.
Posted by Connor D. on 04/28/2009 @ 10:18AM PT
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If the book was published in 1970, then the book has been around, to be read by parents to their children, SINCE 1970. It is still in our public libraries, to be read at Mother's Morning Out Storytime Hour!
"Also something written in 1970 has nothing to do with the way things are now."
How can you say something like that? Did I miss the sarcasm?
Posted by Criss Cox on 04/28/2009 @ 12:27PM PT
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Get over it.
Posted by Jennifer Yeh on 04/28/2009 @ 06:31PM PT
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Get over what miss yeh ?
Get over the fact that women are still being treated as inferiors by the men who are in power ?
Get over the fact that women are seen as being unladylike simply because they choose to take on a "man's" job ?
Get over the fact that women are still expected by society to be mother's first and workers second ?
Miss Yeh...Why dont you get over it and grow up and realise that enforcing gender roles that have never been realistic not only harms women but men as well.
Get over it my ass.
Posted by Thomas McHugh on 07/16/2009 @ 04:31PM PT
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I have to disagree, as I said, every cleaning supply ad shows a woman using the product, as if it must be the womans' job to clean the house. I am sure there are many other examples of how We have not moved forward, but as a man I am missing them.
Posted by Charlie Reed on 04/29/2009 @ 04:33AM PT
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Thanks Charlie. It's important for others to realize that unless you are in the group being discriminated against, it is hard to recognize the markers.
Posted by Lisa Smolen on 04/29/2009 @ 07:25AM PT
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People take things way too seriously. This book was written in the 1970's people, way before all the politically correct bs that is going around in the world today. If you allow books/media/other forms of entertainment to raise your children, then yes they will believe this, but if you do your job as a parent and acutally raise your kid, then you wouldn't have to worry about stuff like this making any type of impact on them.
That being said, this book is no more desciriminating towards women then it is men. In the same breath they say boys are doctors and girls are nurses, by your logic your basically saying "girls can't be doctors and boys can't be nurses". How is saying a boy can't be a nurse any worse then saying a girl can't be a doctor? Because there is more money involved in being a doctor? That type of thinking is completely backwards.
Stop overthinking things, especially books written over 30 years ago.
Posted by Chris Corliss on 04/29/2009 @ 11:16AM PT
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The people who grew up reading books like this, 30 years ago, are the ones making decisions and raising children today.
If you read the comments (I know it's a long list) you'll see that we complain about the stereotypes it imposes on boys, as well. That it discriminates against both groups doesn't make it okay.
Posted by Criss Cox on 04/29/2009 @ 02:08PM PT
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Chris I agree actually quite a bit actually. It was very observant of you to observe the potential for discrimination of men in this book. Men who can not fix something (I usually hand electronics off to My daughter)are thought less of. Male cheerleaders and nurses are belittled also. I also think parenting makes a huge difference. I encouraged My daughter to give herself no boundaries. For quite awhile I thought She was going to be a spy for the CIA, but in the end She got an associates in childcare and now is in that female dominated field. I think at least she made the choice, not society.
Posted by Charlie Reed on 04/29/2009 @ 02:07PM PT
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Oops sorry for the extra "actually". Well save it for later, Maybe next time I'll forget one!
Posted by Charlie Reed on 04/29/2009 @ 02:09PM PT
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In the first, fifth, eighth, and ninth pictures the guy is making an angry face. These stereotypes don't only limit people externally (how we fit into society) but they also limit us internally. They try to tell us how we should feel. While women are held back by these stereotypes much more so than men. It is a terrible trap for all genders and does terrible things to everybody.
Posted by Garrett Miller on 04/30/2009 @ 04:43PM PT
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"Girls use things boys invent" HA
"Girls are first ladies" let's change that in 2016 :)
I've already passed this along. Thanks!
Posted by Lauren Hauser on 05/01/2009 @ 09:55AM PT
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In 1970, I was entering first grade. What makes this book significant is that it's not an anomaly. It's a reflection of thinking during those times, and an attitude that severely restricted the roles of both boys and girls. When we all hit fifth grade and started entering band, the girls were expected to play either flute or clarinet. That was why I chose the trombone, because it made me mad to be told I couldn't do what boys did. Sadly, those boys who played flute or clarinet were seen as effeminate and teased.
Anyone who says "get over it" or "well that was WAY back in 1970" just doesn't understand. 1970 was not that long ago, and the fact that men and women are both on here recognizing this book as ludicrous is really heartening. It's not just about women's rights, it's about gender roles and expectations, and how crippling those can be.
Yes, there is certainly still progress to make, as evidenced by domestic and sexual violence statistics, and human slavery and trafficking, but we've all come a long way, baby! We can continue progress by continuing to discuss these things, and fight gender stereotypes for our children and grandchildren.
Posted by Romy Carver on 05/01/2009 @ 10:50AM PT
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i guess it is should not be surprising the majority of the guys posting just dont get it, nor do they seem interested in understanding. it also appears that intelligence and wisdom are on the decline, and misogyny is stronger than ever.
my question is, why dont women, since they have such a great influence on their children, empower their daughters, and teach their boys respect?? we cant blame people for acting in such a way if we are allowing the tv and video games to raise our children.
the insidiousness of this programming is so unconscious. that is the problem. people do not even know they have been brainwashed, but they have been. we are the only animals who define gender roles to such a ridiculous standard.
men are more logical? that has not been my experience. logic is unfortunately not used by many people of either gender any more, because it requires too much effort. today most people opt for the "label" or quick judgement and offer their "soundbite' which is basically an ignorant opinion that is not based in fact. this shuts down intellligent debate and the chance of anyone growing or learning.
we must all decide to come together in a positive, supportive manner, and start respecting and loving ourselves and others. until this happens, the world will continue to decline as will our quality of life.
nature has already stepped in and begun to put the brakes on our destructive tendencies. the change that is taking place right now can be easy or hard for us, it is up to us to decide, for it will occur with or without our consent. until we align ourselves with nature, and what is real, we will continue to be a menace to this world.
i for one am glad for the opportunity to evaluate where society is right now, and compare our quality of life to that of 50 years ago, or 10 years ago. through discussion, we can make new choices and learn from mistakes made in the past. it is not the mistake that is the problem. it is the refusal to learn and make new choices that are good for us that must end.
i look forward to the day when humans do not choose to continue to learn thru negative experiences and stop being lazy and become motivated to act before something becomes a problem. there is a better way! lets make that our new intention. lets all agree to become aware and vigilant of all of these myths and rise above them right now.
Posted by terri g on 05/01/2009 @ 11:26AM PT
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I am a feminist because of my mum, and my grandma :-) and the extremely liberal school I went to from pre-K - 12th (which was in El Salvador, actually... those Europeans can certainly teach) and because of a civil war that forced women to fight, run businesses, etc.
Posted by Juan Portillo on 06/19/2009 @ 09:30AM PT
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This is a good book and i would have love to read this to my
grandchildren. it is very funny iIreallyy like it.
Posted by belinda haggins on 05/03/2009 @ 08:57AM PT
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I tryed to post more then one comment can't find them but i
really like this cartoon it is funny my grandchildren will
like it also.
Posted by belinda haggins on 05/03/2009 @ 09:57AM PT
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Tab Worth- your comments were forwarded to me, as I'd checked the box. I understand your censorship bit and your second comment is quite cogent. I am not Carolyn and I don't have the time to see what she see said that set you off. My comment had been regarding progress made and futher to go. To you and ANYONE who wants to see something current, that an enlightened fella could be amused by, I'd like to recomend the book (it's even a comic) HOTHEAD PAISAN- HOMICIDAL LESBIAN TERRORIST. If you get it that it's a cathartic fantasy and keep from being threatened, it's as funny as the piece that began this thread was (old gross) history.
Posted by ophelia omai on 05/04/2009 @ 02:21PM PT
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That book was from the 1970's.. we live in 2009... look how much women and men has changed roles in society... so i dont see the big issues. Since in todays world, there are many men who are nurses etc. So what ? Even our ex president ( G.W.Bush) was a cheerleader and that was around 1970's right ?
peace
Posted by Lara Nunes on 05/11/2009 @ 10:22PM PT
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The danger miss nunes is that 1 : We still have folks who want to turn back the clock and 2 : Forgetting the way things were makes it all to easy to go back to those ways...
In any case, I think it good to discuss these issues and see not only how far weve progressed but how far we still need to go untill we are all of us truly equal.
Posted by Thomas McHugh on 07/16/2009 @ 04:46PM PT
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I get why one would be glad to be a boy, but given these crap roles, explain, dear author, why one would be glad to be a girl? Aarrgh.
Posted by Brenda Bailey on 06/15/2009 @ 10:28AM PT
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When I was a little boy, I would sometimes get jealous of girls. I would think to myself: "Why can girls wear pants and skirts, but boys only wear pants? Why can girls be nurses and doctors, but guys should only be doctors? Why can girls be tomboys or sensitive types, but boys don't cry?"
Luckily, my grandma helped me break some traditional boy gender roles sometime between the time I was 4 and 6 years old. Still...
Note: I don't want to cross-dress but the whole skirt thing was an actual thought I had when I was very little.
Posted by Juan Portillo on 06/19/2009 @ 09:34AM PT
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Since this thread popped up again (thanks Brenda) I'd like to ask a question I don't think is very 'pc' these days: If these were not the roles still primarily offered to women (and men) and the propaganda continues, in spite of many new and wonderful role models (go Rachel M.!) how many would be seeking sex change operations?
Put another way: if people were free to present as the gender (sex and gender are different) they felt was appropriate to them, would anyone wish to endure a sex change?
And- anyone have any idea how many sex change operations are performed that facilitate persons to now be heterosexual? Do they ever do it to create a queer? I seriously wonder.
Posted by ophelia omai on 06/15/2009 @ 12:53PM PT
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One of my classmates at university is a transsexual who was born a woman in a man's body, has undergone part of her physical modification and still has some to go, until she has a woman's body, and identifies as gay, as she is attracted to women. So yes, that does happen.
Posted by Kylie Gillis on 08/04/2009 @ 05:00AM PT
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I hope it's not too late to comment on this post... I've had a blast responding to many people's comments. I hope they get noticed :-)
Posted by Juan Portillo on 06/19/2009 @ 09:35AM PT
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I'm surprised and a jot unsettled by the degree to which gender roles remain a controversy on this site. I thought that when Benedict XVI decreed the reaffirmation of traditional gender roles that he was a bit out of touch. Similarly, statement of faith by the Southern Baptist Convention declares that wives should graciously submit to their husbands. But evidentally there are plenty who still engage in sexist stereotypes, both of men and women.
This book makes me think of Mattel's talking Barbie declaring math is hard! or the more recent Carls Jr. ads that declare if it weren't for us, some men would starve. it still both amazes and bugs me the degree to which products for women are empowered with magical features, yet devices for men are backed by science, at least according to contemporary marketers.
We're in an age in which women are gaining access to traditionally male roles, and excelling in them. We're discovering that female soldiers are just as hardy, female firefighters and cops just as capable, female pilots just as cool, female executives just as ruthless and female doctors just as intelligent (and just as biased) as their male counterparts. The more we blur the gender roles, the more we discover that men aren't really all that much better (or worse) at anything, even on average, it's just the social constructs of a traditionally patriarchal society that made it seem that way.
Imagine a world in which there are no gender roles whatsoever, when even materity is optional for either sex. That is the level of equality and normalization for which we strive.
Posted by Derek Boain on 06/24/2009 @ 03:33PM PT
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I dont know about the maternity thing sir as I still believe that there are some things men werent meant to do...But on everything else you said...I agree with you sir.
Posted by Thomas McHugh on 07/16/2009 @ 04:54PM PT
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PS: When swear words are used for their intended linguistic purpose, to add emotional punctuation, I'm all for their use, though I'd go as far as saying in that case, there's no need to censor it.
Posted by Derek Boain on 06/24/2009 @ 03:35PM PT
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While I think the outrage is justified, why not write about publishers, books and writers who are getting it right?
What is the last book you read to your child, niece or volunteered to read to a class?
Would a positive article about children's literature generate as many responses?
Posted by Susan L on 07/12/2009 @ 07:25AM PT
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What is wrong with women cooking and men fixing things? Sadly, I don't think enough women today even know how to cook, and kids are being raised on fast food. Spoiled wives want their husbands to take them out. How is that any different? They still expect men to take care of them without lifting a finger? The destruction of the traditional family unit began in the 70's by people who backed the Women's Lib Movement and opted to have daycares raise their children for them while they worked to make enough money to live a lavish lifestyle. Women began pounding their chests and crying out for equality while their children were being ignored. Enough said.
Posted by Hope Smith on 07/12/2009 @ 11:37AM PT
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"they worked to make enough money to live a lavish lifestyle. Women began pounding their chests and crying out for equality while their children were being ignored."
Some of us work our asses off to barely make enough money to put clothing on our children's backs - much less enjoy a lavish lifestyle. Equality is about making enough money to be able to do that without having to work, oh say 2 or more jobs just to make ends meet.
Posted by Lisa Smolen on 07/12/2009 @ 11:51AM PT
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Lisa, I am currently in that boat myself...a hard working single mom raising 2 teenaged boys. The point I am making is that women must have felt inferior and felt labeled as a homemaker or housewife.
When we decided to have children, we opted to squeak by on one income so that I could care for our kids at home. When times were tough, I got a job to help make ends meet. We never lived lavishly and I cooked meals (among many other household duties) and was quite proud to do so for my family.
I just don't understand why people get their panties in a wad about who plays what role. It just doesn't matter that much to me.
Perhaps all the good family shows from the era before the Women's Lib Movement should be permanently cancelled from television as it such a painful reminder of how women were so poorly mistreated.
Posted by Hope Smith on 07/12/2009 @ 12:23PM PT
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Hope, I better understand now what you're saying. It's a damned if you do - damned if you don't kind of situation. Women who stay home are labeled negatively as homemakers and those who go to work are labeled negatively as career women. I'm a combination of both - I started working from home when our baby was born so that I could be home with him. Meant a huge pay decrease, but as he's gotten older I've started working more often outside the house, but again within limits because of my role as "mom". I don't think Women's Lib is necessarily the problem, it's how it is interpretted - trying to be like men (or worse, like men without children) as opposed to embracing the roles we play in our own lives.
Posted by Lisa Smolen on 07/12/2009 @ 12:44PM PT
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Theres nothing wrong with the "traditional family" per se provided its actually chosen rather than simply forced onto women and men and then enforced through outdated societal thinking...
I would respect a stay at home mother no less and no more than I would a woman who chose to work outside of the home and the same applies to men as it should.
Posted by Thomas McHugh on 07/16/2009 @ 05:02PM PT
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"embracing the roles we play in our own lives"...beautifully said, Lisa. I did pull those words out of your context, but that is perhaps what I should have said in the first place. My original post here came across a bit angrily, but I will admit that it gets tiring to hear the same old tune played over and over again about discrimination and what have you. Women have more power today than ever to be whatever they want to be. Most moms I know wished they could have been a homemaker while their kids were very young. To me, it was a natural instinct to be totally available for my kids and to raise them well.
I wanted to make a note about kids toys - Every boy and girl in the world should own an Easy Bake Oven. I have always told my kids that the kitchen is nothing more than a chemistry lab - mixing ingredients together and create something new and yummy..(or maybe not so yummy!)
Posted by Hope Smith on 07/12/2009 @ 01:19PM PT
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Hope, my problem with this book is not that it says girls should cook -- it's that it implies that boys should NOT, because girls should cook FOR the boys ("Girls can cook, Boys can eat"). I have no problem with boys fixing things, but I have a problem with the book saying "Girls need things fixed" because it implies that girls cannot fix things themselves, and therefore need the boys to do it for them.
Both boys and girls should have Easy-Bake ovens (my 18-month-old nephew loves playing with pots and pans and toy kitchens), and both men and women should learn how to cook. My husband is the one who does the cooking at home, because I really don't care about food that much and would be happy living off peanut-butter sandwiches for the rest of my life. Does this make him less of a man, because he cooks? Does this make me less of a woman, because I don't? No. But strict gender roles and books like this one imply that YES, my husband's a pansy and I'm worthless as a woman.
A few weeks ago my husband and I broke a window while moving furniture into the house. I replaced the broken window myself. We also bought some furniture from Ikea and I put together the bookshelf (asking for his help only when I needed an extra person to lift the thing), and the dining table and chairs. Am I less of a lady because I fixed things and built them? Is he less of a man because he let me do it, instead of doing it himself? No. But this book implies there is something wrong with me, as a girl, for wanting to fix things and wanting to put things together, and there's something wrong with him for not doing all this work himself while I sat in the kitchen knitting him a sweater. (Actually, I prefer crochet to knitting...)
I'd love to be a stay-at-home mom (when I have kids), but I can't because my husband's job does not offer health insurance (works for a small business that has been promising benefits for over a year, but so far nothing). We live in a 2-bedroom duplex and our only debt is mortgage, my student loans, and one used car. We go to the movies once a month, out to eat maybe 2-3 times a month (total about $25 per meal, tip included). We do not live the lavish lifestyle, but we need my job/income to make it. Women work because they have to, not because the Women's Lib movement destroyed family values. What the Women's Lib movement did is allow us to become doctors, lawyers, and businesswomen as well as secretaries, laundresses, and schoolteachers.
Posted by Criss Cox on 07/13/2009 @ 08:46PM PT
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AMEN, AMEN, AMEN!!! Criss, I could not have said it better!
And I agree with Lisa and Hope that we should embrace the roles in our lives. But I believe we should get to CHOOSE those roles, not be told what's acceptable and what isn't. How can we embrace what is forced upon us??
Posted by Romy Carver on 07/14/2009 @ 09:43AM PT
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Good gawd and gawdess...WTF dont even begin to cover that crap trap...
No wonder society is fucked up... :O
Posted by Thomas McHugh on 07/16/2009 @ 03:07PM PT
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I have recently posted Susan's Unofficial List of Great YA by and About Women of Color.
It's about what we do and model.
Thanks to Thom for dropping me a note.
Susan
Posted by Susan L on 07/18/2009 @ 09:58AM PT
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Yea.Get back to the kitchen bitch!
Posted by Captain Obvius on 09/22/2009 @ 11:38AM PT
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